Educational Seminar: Why Teens Kill?
Educational Seminar: Why Teens Kill?: "Breaking down the causes and seeing the warning signs"
posted by starviego at
4:34 PM
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Tuesday, May 03, 2011
Wednesday, December 23, 2009
Where did they get the guns?
Where did they get the guns?
Where did they get the guns? Well, they got the Tec-9 from Manes, and they got the long guns at the Tanner gun show, according to the official version.
...maybe, ...or maybe not....
--Let's start with the Tec-9
BATF(8150)
According to Mark Manes, he purchased the Intratech-9, ser#D076305, at the Tanner gun show on 8-2-98. He had a credit card receipt for $491 from Eagle Enterprises for the Tec-9 purchase. Eagle Enterprises says absolutely not! Which raises the question of whether a false paper trail was laid down for this weapon. At any rate the purchase price seems high--the cop who inventoried the seized evidence only put the value of it at $100(see EP 3-42). But Manes was not charged with forgery, as far as I know.
Mark Manes(8237)
Admits buying Tech-9, ser#D076305, from unknown buyer at Tanner on 8-2-98. Says he handed it over to Klebold on 1-23-99.
Brian Distel(8182)
Witness to Manes-"Klebold" Tec-9 transaction. Said it happened around late February, 1999. Also witnessed Manes buy it at the Tanner gun show, in January of 1999.
Describes buyer of Tec-9 thusly:
w/m, 6'
long curly hair, shoulder length
wearing blackjack pizza shirt
acne on face
20 years old
Distel IDed this person out of a photo array. Tellingly, the IOs do not put a name to this ID.
Greg Macilliott(8185)
The second witness to this transaction. Says it happened sometime in March of '99.
Describes purchaser:
curly hair
big nose
wearing blackjack pizza shirt
Like Distel, he IDed this person out of a photo array; he remains unidentified.
Comment: The police failure to identify who the two witnesses saw is obviously good evidence it was not Klebold. When I read those admittedly sparse discriptions, I think of Perry.
--The Hi-Point
Mark Manes(8237)
He asked Harris about the Hi-Point at a target shooting session on 3-6-99. "Harris said he got it from his cousin."
Phil Duran(8235 and 8213)
Went to target practice with H&K, Manes, and Manes' girlfriend in mid-March, 1999. He was told the Hi-Point belonged to an uncle or cousin.
--Shotguns
Denver Rocky Mountain News, 12-12-99
"The two shotguns used did not have serial numbers because they were made before 1968."
Marcus Notte, FBI(8203)
Shotguns have serial numbers: Stevens double-barrel, ser#A077513 and Savage Springfield pump action, ser#A232432.(Is it possible that we are talking about 4 shotguns here--two with numbers and two without?)
Says $300 given to Duran for purchase of shotgun, not a Tec-9.
Pat McDuffee(10789)
Says Klebold bought a shotgun on his 18nth birthday, "either from a Walmart or a K-mart."
Jim Washington(8245) and Ron Hartman(8249)
The duo at the Tanner gun show who sold Robyn Anderson one of the long guns. Hartman, who did the actual transaction, says it was the Stevens double-barrel shotgun, ser#A077513, and the transaction took place on 11-22-98. He says he is 80% sure it was Dylan Klebold that was the "young man who accompanied her", though he describes him as being only 5'11". For what it's worth, both Washington and Hartman are long-time federal employees--Washington was a 'senior investigative and security specialist' with the 'Defense Security Service,' a federal agency that conducts criminal investigation for the U.S. Dept of Defense, and Hartman was a 20-year veteran of both the Navy and the Air Force.
Robyn Anderson(8216)
Says Klebold bought shotgun from one dealer and Harris bought the double-barrel shotgun from another dealer, when they all went to the Tanner gun show on 12-13-98.
(9959)
Robyn Anderson told Brittany Campbell she had bought guns.
Kellie Brown,TCMer(8211)
Robyn told her in the evening of 4-20 that H&K purchased two shotguns and a rifle at the Tanner gun show.
Nathan Dykeman(8198 and 10693))
Says Klebold told him he bought a pistol('uzi' type) and a shotgun from Phil Duran. (Officially, Duran was merely a go-between, collecting and delivering the second payment on the Tec-9 from Klebold.) The Tec-9 and double-barrel shotgun belonged to Klebold; the pump action belonged to Harris.
Chris Morris(9822)
Told FBI hostage negotiators at 2:50pm on 4-20 that 'the' shotgun belongs to Harris' or Klebold's parents.
(10841)
Says Klebold could have got shotguns from his father, "as he had a number of guns."
Wheeldon, Sheridan PD detective(10222)
The first police officer to enter the Harris house on 4-20(thanks, Jane). A shotgun and ammunition is found by him in Harris' bedroom. Not a sawed-off shotgun barrel, and not a BB-gun.
"An unknown guage shotgun with a sling was hanging in clear view on the side of a dresser table inside the bedroom."
--Was there a handgun?
USA Today Online, 4-28-99
"Investigators said a girlfriend of one of the gunmen bought a handgun and a rifle used in the crime-and then on Wedesday said she actually bought two shotguns and a rifle."
Zach Heckler, TCMer(10754)
He was told by Robyn on 4-21 that she purchased two shotguns and a semi-automatic handgun.
ACSO Nelson(8802)
Witnesses tell him one shooter is carrying a double-barrel shotgun, machine gun like a Tec-9 and either a .45 or 9mm handgun. Shooter #2 is carrying single-barrel shotgun and a Tec-9 type machine gun.
Chris Wisher, Washington Post, 4-21-99
"Chris Wisher, a sophomore, said the gunmen were armed with bombs, a shotgun, a handgun and a third weapon that he said was 'like an uzi'.
BATF(8135-8145)
For some reason, on these pages the 11k goes into a digression into discussion of another crime--a drive by on 4-18 not thought to be related to Columbine. Traces were initiated on two guns seized: an Intratec 9, ser#D052614, and a Glock Model 17 9mm, ser#BLM99505. Are the IOs trying to tell us something here? Why would they include all this information on a crime that was totally unrelated to the subject of the 11K? IF either of the two weapons were part of the attack on 4-20, then it raises the troubling thesis that weapons used in the killings came from a police evidence room. Remember that a few of the eyewitnesses initially thought that one of the suspects was a cop.
[Dave's guns is on page 8136, where it was in the chain of possession of a Glock17 used in a drive-by shooting on 4-18-99. [4-16-96 sale date(see8316)]
I have always wondered why these 10 pages were in the 11k; well here is a possible link. Both the pistol and another Tec-9 were listed as being recovered in Littleton on 4-18, no address given. The drive -by occured in the 2800 block of East Euclid Avenue in Arapahoe County; this doesn't correspond to the address of any known TCMer.]
(9881)
At Leawood Park, reference to a Glock Model 21 revolver, handed amongst JeffCo sheriff's officers.
Nathan Dykeman(8198 )
"Dykeman never saw any Glock firearm or heard any talk of any Glock firearms."(Comment: why ask about a Glock in the first place?)
--Talk of an AK-47
Sean Graves(8759)
The shorter shooter was using an AK-47, army edition semi-automatic.
Brian Distel(8238 )
Went to a target shoot where an AK-47 was present.
Chris Morris(10037)
Says in past two weeks(of 4-20) Klebold or Harris bought an AK-47 off one of his other workers there.
--Possible other sources for the guns used in the attack
Bijan Monte(1016)
Said the Boles family(as in Tad Boles, TCMer) had a lot of guns. At the time of Boles' interview in May of '99, Boles' father was incarcerated on a weapons violation(10657).
Andrea Cook(5188 )
Says a (redacted-probably Perry) helped get the guns, and that he got them from several female students.
Dan Fleener, teacher(5558 )
Says TCMer David Caravan, boasted of having guns at home.
David Caravan, TCMer(6218 )
He told IOs that he had access to firearms at his residence.
Pat McDuffee(10786)
McDuffee says Joe Stair had many different types of guns, including shotguns. Also says TCMers Charles Phillips and John Beachum may have had weapons.
Jennifer Harmon(8834)
"She had heard that one of their dads owned a gun shop."
(10137)
Robert Perry's dad is a gun collector and "has an arsenal."
Eric Ault(10646)
Says that Harris told him he had access to his parent's guns.
Matt Houck(6633)
Says that Brooks Brown told him that Harris had recently ordered guns(he had just turned 18 and the three-week waiting period was up on 4-20.
Cecilia Grossman(7493)
A resident in the area, Brooks run up to her and ask if he could use the phone. According to her, Brooks told her: "Brown's ex-friend just turned 18 years old and Brown thought that he was getting a gun for his birthday."(Oddly enough, Brooks showed up four days later to 'confirm' that he was talking about Harris.(Taylor, 7687))
Daily News, Los Angeles, 4-25-99
"The investigators also said Thursday that they believed at least some of the weapons used in Tuesday's attack might have been stolen..."
John Veigel(7326)
Purchased Hi-Point rifle in Jan, '99
Benjamin Robert Stevens(8179)
Arrested with a Hi-Point rifle, ser#A54177, in his possession on 5-7-99. He claims he purchased the weapon from a store on 4-19-99, and that he was friends with Klebold and is "still tight with associates of Harris and Klebold."
FBI report, pg83
"...the weapons came from a local militia in the area,....The reason it happened on 4-20 is because they got all the guns and ammo and explosive compounds for free to do it on that date."(unknown source)
On 12-20-99 the BATF sent a letter to JeffCo that the computer search of records in the case is still ongoing(8258 ).(???)
Comment: The case of where H&K got their weaponry is not as clear cut as the police would have us believe. In the case of the Hi-Point and the pump action shotgun there is no apparent visible effort by the IOs to track down who sold them the weapons. In none of the four weapons sales was any receipt or bill of sale issued, as far as I can tell. The police are basically telling us that we have to accept the word of Mark Manes and Robin Anderson, both of whom, it should be noted, may have had motive to go along with the police version of events.
---------------------------------
Notes
DRMN 3-22-00
Two other Tanner exhibitors, Larry Russell and Ray Spain, have been linked to the TEC-DC9 used in the Columbine High killings. Neither have been charged with any wrongdoing for the sale of the weapon, which changed hands many times before ending up with Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
Russell and Spain have been in business together since the early 1990s, running various gun and fireworks operations, according to state records.
But ATF records show that only one man at a time maintains a firearms license, with a slight overlap. Russell had a license from 1990 to August 1997. Then Spain had one from May 1997 to Sept. 10, 1998. And Russell got his current license Sept. 22, 1998.
This business arrangement allows the formerly licensed partner to dispose of inventory without background checks or paperwork, authorities said.
Originally, the TEC-DC9 was registered to Spain's gun business. He then transferred it to his private property. In late summer of 1998, just before Russell got his license for the second time, he sold the gun for Spain at a Tanner Gun Show, according to court records.
The purchaser was Mark Manes, who's now serving six years in prison for selling the TEC-DC9 to juveniles. But Russell told ATF agents he kept no records of the sale.
-----------------------
Getty images
See pg15 of 24
photo of 'Dave's Gunshop' though the sign on the door clearly reads "Dave's Guns and Police Supply." [1842 South Parker Rd, #15, Denver(?-address not on photo caption)]
caption reads:
"6/26/99 Dave's Gunshop near Littleton, where some of the guns used in the Columbine massacre have been traced to."
The only mention of Dave's guns is on page 8136, where it was in the chain of possession of a Glock17 used in a drive-by shooting on 4-18-99. [4-16-96 sale date(see8316)] I have always wondered why these 10 pages were in the 11k; well here is a possible link. Both the pistol and another Tec-9 were listed as being recovered in Littleton on 4-18, no address given. The drive -by occured in the 2800 block of East Euclid Avenue in Arapahoe County; this doesn't correspond to the address of any known TCMer.
westword
http://www.westword.com/2005-01-27/news/word-of-mouth/3
"....at the back of a Thornton strip mall. ...." is a "....gun shop that used to occupy the space between Don Ramon's and Shotz (that) was the shoddy, occasional business where Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold purchased some of the weapons they eventually used at Columbine. In the wake of that tragedy, reporters flooded the gun shop, demanding answers from the reticent owner."
...could be referring to this one:
[http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0430guns1.shtml
Thornton firearms dealer Larry Russell sold the semiautomatic pistol used in the Columbine High School killings at the Tanner Gun Show.
But Russell said Thursday that he kept no record showing who bought the weapon.
The TEC-DC9 ended up in the hands of Eric Harris, one of the two Columbine killers.]
DAVE'S GUNS(?) 1-3-01
http://www.westword.com/issues/2001-03-01/news/feature2.html
After a few years, Anver applied for a federal license to deal firearms. At first he sold them out of his house and at gun shows. In 1992, business was so good that he opened his first store, on Parker Road. Three years after that(1995?), he moved a few miles up the road to his current location, where business has continued to boom. Last year, Dave's Guns was the busiest single federally licensed gun store in the state. The store sold about 8,500 handguns, rifles, shotguns and collectibles.
One reason for Anver's success is niche marketing. He has made a particular effort to court local law-enforcement officers looking to buy guns for their jobs. Today Dave's Guns sells more firearms to more cops than any other local shop.
-- on June 1 (2001), Dave's Guns is burglarized. In all, Anver discovered 38 guns gone.
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
DRMN 4-12-2000
While hordes of gun lovers will angrily protest President Clinton's every move in Denver, Anver — who sells more guns than any other Colorado dealer — will be hanging out with the president.
Clinton is loathed by the gun crowd. His visit today to promote a ballot proposal to close Colorado's so-called gun show loophole has incited a fresh round of animosity.
But not from Anver.
"President Clinton disagreeing with me does not make him an evil person," says the 39-year-old owner of Dave's Guns, a shop in a South Parker Road strip mall.
Today, Anver will pack up an assortment of weapons and head off to MSNBC's gun control town hall as an invited guest, the gun world's unlikely goodwill ambassador.
Half of his $3.7 million in annual gun and ammunition sales are to law enforcement. Cops and ex-cops work at his store.
---Anver let ABC News into his store Monday and will appear with NBC's Tom Brokaw today.
--After all, most of his clients are cops. "Guns are not all drive-by shootings. It's not all about Columbine.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/gun0919.htm
DP 9-19-99
In Colorado, the Columbine High shooting led the Aurora Police Department to reverse a longstanding policy permitting the sale of used and confiscated guns.
But first, the department decided to go ahead with one last sale.
On July 15(1999), Aurora police took 206 guns to a local gun store, Dave's Guns, and received a $19,575 credit toward the purchase of future police supplies.
But after the Columbine High tragedy, (Aurora PD Chief Verne)Saint Vincent decided the risk of putting guns back on the street outweighed the economic benefits to his department.
By then, "we had already in my mind made a commitment to make that deal'' with Dave's Guns, he said. But "I told my executive staff - this is the last one. We're not going to be in the business of doing this anymore.''
Dave Anver, owner of Dave's Guns, has a good reputation with law-enforcement agencies. He buys police guns, sells police supplies and maintains police weapons. Posted inside his front door is a newspaper article on the Denver police gang unit.
--In the last three years, the Department of Corrections has shipped 80 semiautomatic pistols, some with pre-ban magazines, to Anver's store. Denver police sent him 197 used Remington shotguns in a 1996 trade for new shotguns.
Some police guns stay in his shop. But most are shipped to wholesalers, who in turn distribute them nationally to retail gun stores.
--The Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, the agency investigating the Columbine High massacre, sold a few AR-15 assault rifles - a sale Sheriff John Stone said will not be repeated. Two cities in Jefferson County, Lakewood and Littleton, also sold AR-15s made before the assault weapons ban.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/guns1219.htm
Dave's Guns, an Arapahoe County store that reports more multiple sales than any other Colorado dealer
[Interestingly, "Dave's Guns" also sold a weapon to Platte Canyon(Bailey, CO, 9-27-06) school attacker Duane Morrison and also a weapon to New Life Church(Colo Springs) shooter Matthew Murray, 18 (12-9-07).]
http://www.denver-rmn.com/shooting/0424guns9.shtml
DRMN 4-24-99
Federal agents have tracked the two semiautomatic guns used in the Columbine High School massacre -- a TEC-9 pistol and a carbine -- to legal, licensed gun dealers.
But authorities are not saying how the 9mm weapons got into the hands of teens. Or where the dealers are located.
Initially, "they were purchased legally ... from federally licensed firearms dealers," said Jeff Roehm, chief of public information for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
--TEC-9s are easily fitted with a device called a "hell fire trigger." A shooter can empty a 32-round magazine in seconds, pop it out and reload quickly with this device, according to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, part of Handgun Control Inc., the nation's largest anti-gun lobby.
--Few metro-area gun dealers sell TEC-9s, said Dave Anver, of Dave's Guns, a gun store on Parker Road.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2800951/detail.html
J.T. Trujillo, a law enforcement specialist with Dave's Guns.
--------------------
the Tanner Gun Show, an event that fills the Denver Merchandise Mart nine times a year.
http://careers.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/1214col1.shtml
Federal law prohibits the "straw purchase" of a firearm on behalf of someone who is ineligible to buy it. The two killers were underage.
But the law applies only to guns sold by a licensed federal firearms dealer. ATF agents have determined that Anderson bought two of the three guns from a private person -- not a dealer. But they have not found who sold Anderson the third gun.
If that person turns out to be a licensed dealer and Anderson falsified documents to disguise the purchase, she still could face charges.
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0128rbn2.shtml
Outside the hearing room, a woman who claimed she watched Harris, Klebold and Anderson wander through the Tanner Gun Show, waited to testify(before the Colo House Judiciary Committee on 1-27-00).
Pam Volpe, a volunteer for the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, was handing out political pamphlets that day in December 1998. The trio of Columbine students was so immature and boisterous, Volpe said.
For example, the teens noticed a gun-rights banner with a message about gun freedom in America.
"They said, 'Damn straight,"' Volpe recalled. "They were excited."
Also, Anderson was not the timid, naive young woman she appeared to be Tuesday, Volpe said. "She was a very beautiful young woman, and she was very flirtatious," Volpe said. "It was very out of place at a gun show."
8172
Ms. Blodgett provided a dealer list for the Denver CO Tanner Gun Shows on Nov 22 & 23, 1998 and Dec 12&13, 1998. Ms. Blodgett further provided a dealer "floorplan" that documents dealer locations, as she assigns them, during Tanner Gun Shows. ATF retained records. (ATF F 3900.16 property form)
http://www.daves-guns.com/faq.htm
quote from the website: "We love gun shows and you will sometimes find us there on the weekends."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=751875
Frank DeAngelis "An 18-year-old student went to a gun show in Colorado Springs and bought these weapons and gave them to Klebold and Harris."
[Comment: Colo Springs??]
==============
Cops sold guns to Eric and Dylan at the Tanner Gun Show(TGS)?
The single most incriminating piece of evidence is the refusal of the investigators to tell us who sold H&K the Hi-Point and the pump action shotgun. There is no apparent visible effort in the released documents that the IOs even attempted to track down their identities. No receipt or bill of sale was issued, as far as I can tell. (Though that is true of the other two weapons also.) And usually, when they are hiding something, it's for a reason.
The connection with 'Dave's Guns' comes from a couple of obscure references:
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&p=Columbine%20&assetType=image&src=quick
Getty Images has a photo of 'Dave's Gunshop'(though the sign on the door clearly reads "Dave's Guns and Police Supply") as part of their Columbine collection of photos. (If the page doesn't pop up it's page 9 of 15, in the top row)
The caption provided for the photo reads:
"6/26/99 Dave's Gunshop near Littleton, [b]where some of the guns used in the Columbine massacre have been traced to[/b]."
http://www.westword.com/2005-01-27/news/word-of-mouth/3
{about half way down the page}
"....at the back of a Thornton strip mall. ...." is a "....gun shop that used to occupy the space between Don Ramon's and Shotz (that) was the shoddy, occasional business [b]where Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold purchased some of the weapons[/b] they eventually used at Columbine. In the wake of that tragedy, [b]reporters flooded the gun shop[/b], demanding answers from the reticent owner."
[Comment: I don't remember a single story in the media about any gunshop that may have been the source, directly or indirectly, of the Columbine weapons. Was this aspect of the story deliberately covered up? That's what it sounds like.]
This quote indicates that the shop or its salespeople could have been at the TGS that day:
http://www.daves-guns.com/faq.htm
quote from the website of Dave's Guns: "We love gun shows and you will sometimes [b]find us there on the weekends[/b]."
There is no question that 'Dave's Guns,' and its owner, Dave Anver, had a close relationship to police:
http://www.westword.com/issues/2001-03-01/news/feature2.html
One reason for Anver's success is niche marketing. He has made a particular effort to court local law-enforcement officers looking to buy guns for their jobs. Today Dave's Guns sells more firearms to more cops than any other local shop.
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
--Half of his $3.7 million in annual gun and ammunition sales are to law enforcement. [b]Cops and ex-cops work at his store[/b]. ....most of his clients are cops.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/gun0919.htm
DP 9-19-99
--On July 15(1999), Aurora police took 206 guns to a local gun store, Dave's Guns, and received a $19,575 credit toward the purchase of future police supplies. .....
--In the last three years, the Department of Corrections has shipped 80 semiautomatic pistols, some with pre-ban magazines, to Anver's store. Denver police sent him 197 used Remington shotguns in a 1996 trade for new shotguns.
--Dave Anver, owner of Dave's Guns, has [b]a good reputation[/b] with law-enforcement agencies. He buys police guns, sells police supplies and maintains police weapons. Posted inside his front door is a newspaper article on the [b]Denver police gang unit[/b].
[Comment: The TCM could indeed be considered a Denver-area gang. Thus the gang unit should have at least known of their existence. But after 4-20, the general attitude of the 'officials'--police and schools--was "trenchcoat who?"]
Dave Anver, far from being a pariah, was feelin' the love after Columbine:
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
DRMN 4-12-2000 (the source describes events on the first anniversary, in April 2000)
While hordes of gun lovers will angrily protest President Clinton's every move in Denver, Anver — who sells more guns than any other Colorado dealer — will be [b]hanging out with the president[/b].
--Today, Anver will pack up an assortment of weapons and head off to [b]MSNBC[/b]'s gun control town hall as an invited guest.... .
--Anver let [b]ABC[/b] News into his store Monday and will appear with [b]NBC[/b]'s Tom Brokaw today.
[Comment: Is this a case of 'hiding in plain site?' Was it a message that Anver was protected and thus not to be bothered? Could it have been a reward for a job well done(quite often interview subjects are paid handsomely)?]
The 12-20-99 issue of Time magazine featured Columbine as its cover story. Inside was a photo of Stone and one of his pogues holding up the Tec9, the Hi-Point, and the double barreled shotgun. The caption said something like "cops hold up the three weapons used in the massacre." There was nothing in the article that mentioned the pump action shotgun, nor was there a retraction/correction printed in the next issue. Even though every version of events prior to this had them using four guns. At the time I thought maybe they were trying to distance themselves from this weapon for some reason.
(8258 )
Also in late December the BATF sent a letter to JeffCo that the computer search of records in the case is still ongoing.
[Comment: I think seven months is more than enough time to do a search of records. One gets the feeling this was just a delaying tactic, in the hope that the questions would fade away.]
Where did they get the guns? Well, they got the Tec-9 from Manes, and they got the long guns at the Tanner gun show, according to the official version.
...maybe, ...or maybe not....
--Let's start with the Tec-9
BATF(8150)
According to Mark Manes, he purchased the Intratech-9, ser#D076305, at the Tanner gun show on 8-2-98. He had a credit card receipt for $491 from Eagle Enterprises for the Tec-9 purchase. Eagle Enterprises says absolutely not! Which raises the question of whether a false paper trail was laid down for this weapon. At any rate the purchase price seems high--the cop who inventoried the seized evidence only put the value of it at $100(see EP 3-42). But Manes was not charged with forgery, as far as I know.
Mark Manes(8237)
Admits buying Tech-9, ser#D076305, from unknown buyer at Tanner on 8-2-98. Says he handed it over to Klebold on 1-23-99.
Brian Distel(8182)
Witness to Manes-"Klebold" Tec-9 transaction. Said it happened around late February, 1999. Also witnessed Manes buy it at the Tanner gun show, in January of 1999.
Describes buyer of Tec-9 thusly:
w/m, 6'
long curly hair, shoulder length
wearing blackjack pizza shirt
acne on face
20 years old
Distel IDed this person out of a photo array. Tellingly, the IOs do not put a name to this ID.
Greg Macilliott(8185)
The second witness to this transaction. Says it happened sometime in March of '99.
Describes purchaser:
curly hair
big nose
wearing blackjack pizza shirt
Like Distel, he IDed this person out of a photo array; he remains unidentified.
Comment: The police failure to identify who the two witnesses saw is obviously good evidence it was not Klebold. When I read those admittedly sparse discriptions, I think of Perry.
--The Hi-Point
Mark Manes(8237)
He asked Harris about the Hi-Point at a target shooting session on 3-6-99. "Harris said he got it from his cousin."
Phil Duran(8235 and 8213)
Went to target practice with H&K, Manes, and Manes' girlfriend in mid-March, 1999. He was told the Hi-Point belonged to an uncle or cousin.
--Shotguns
Denver Rocky Mountain News, 12-12-99
"The two shotguns used did not have serial numbers because they were made before 1968."
Marcus Notte, FBI(8203)
Shotguns have serial numbers: Stevens double-barrel, ser#A077513 and Savage Springfield pump action, ser#A232432.(Is it possible that we are talking about 4 shotguns here--two with numbers and two without?)
Says $300 given to Duran for purchase of shotgun, not a Tec-9.
Pat McDuffee(10789)
Says Klebold bought a shotgun on his 18nth birthday, "either from a Walmart or a K-mart."
Jim Washington(8245) and Ron Hartman(8249)
The duo at the Tanner gun show who sold Robyn Anderson one of the long guns. Hartman, who did the actual transaction, says it was the Stevens double-barrel shotgun, ser#A077513, and the transaction took place on 11-22-98. He says he is 80% sure it was Dylan Klebold that was the "young man who accompanied her", though he describes him as being only 5'11". For what it's worth, both Washington and Hartman are long-time federal employees--Washington was a 'senior investigative and security specialist' with the 'Defense Security Service,' a federal agency that conducts criminal investigation for the U.S. Dept of Defense, and Hartman was a 20-year veteran of both the Navy and the Air Force.
Robyn Anderson(8216)
Says Klebold bought shotgun from one dealer and Harris bought the double-barrel shotgun from another dealer, when they all went to the Tanner gun show on 12-13-98.
(9959)
Robyn Anderson told Brittany Campbell she had bought guns.
Kellie Brown,TCMer(8211)
Robyn told her in the evening of 4-20 that H&K purchased two shotguns and a rifle at the Tanner gun show.
Nathan Dykeman(8198 and 10693))
Says Klebold told him he bought a pistol('uzi' type) and a shotgun from Phil Duran. (Officially, Duran was merely a go-between, collecting and delivering the second payment on the Tec-9 from Klebold.) The Tec-9 and double-barrel shotgun belonged to Klebold; the pump action belonged to Harris.
Chris Morris(9822)
Told FBI hostage negotiators at 2:50pm on 4-20 that 'the' shotgun belongs to Harris' or Klebold's parents.
(10841)
Says Klebold could have got shotguns from his father, "as he had a number of guns."
Wheeldon, Sheridan PD detective(10222)
The first police officer to enter the Harris house on 4-20(thanks, Jane). A shotgun and ammunition is found by him in Harris' bedroom. Not a sawed-off shotgun barrel, and not a BB-gun.
"An unknown guage shotgun with a sling was hanging in clear view on the side of a dresser table inside the bedroom."
--Was there a handgun?
USA Today Online, 4-28-99
"Investigators said a girlfriend of one of the gunmen bought a handgun and a rifle used in the crime-and then on Wedesday said she actually bought two shotguns and a rifle."
Zach Heckler, TCMer(10754)
He was told by Robyn on 4-21 that she purchased two shotguns and a semi-automatic handgun.
ACSO Nelson(8802)
Witnesses tell him one shooter is carrying a double-barrel shotgun, machine gun like a Tec-9 and either a .45 or 9mm handgun. Shooter #2 is carrying single-barrel shotgun and a Tec-9 type machine gun.
Chris Wisher, Washington Post, 4-21-99
"Chris Wisher, a sophomore, said the gunmen were armed with bombs, a shotgun, a handgun and a third weapon that he said was 'like an uzi'.
BATF(8135-8145)
For some reason, on these pages the 11k goes into a digression into discussion of another crime--a drive by on 4-18 not thought to be related to Columbine. Traces were initiated on two guns seized: an Intratec 9, ser#D052614, and a Glock Model 17 9mm, ser#BLM99505. Are the IOs trying to tell us something here? Why would they include all this information on a crime that was totally unrelated to the subject of the 11K? IF either of the two weapons were part of the attack on 4-20, then it raises the troubling thesis that weapons used in the killings came from a police evidence room. Remember that a few of the eyewitnesses initially thought that one of the suspects was a cop.
[Dave's guns is on page 8136, where it was in the chain of possession of a Glock17 used in a drive-by shooting on 4-18-99. [4-16-96 sale date(see8316)]
I have always wondered why these 10 pages were in the 11k; well here is a possible link. Both the pistol and another Tec-9 were listed as being recovered in Littleton on 4-18, no address given. The drive -by occured in the 2800 block of East Euclid Avenue in Arapahoe County; this doesn't correspond to the address of any known TCMer.]
(9881)
At Leawood Park, reference to a Glock Model 21 revolver, handed amongst JeffCo sheriff's officers.
Nathan Dykeman(8198 )
"Dykeman never saw any Glock firearm or heard any talk of any Glock firearms."(Comment: why ask about a Glock in the first place?)
--Talk of an AK-47
Sean Graves(8759)
The shorter shooter was using an AK-47, army edition semi-automatic.
Brian Distel(8238 )
Went to a target shoot where an AK-47 was present.
Chris Morris(10037)
Says in past two weeks(of 4-20) Klebold or Harris bought an AK-47 off one of his other workers there.
--Possible other sources for the guns used in the attack
Bijan Monte(1016)
Said the Boles family(as in Tad Boles, TCMer) had a lot of guns. At the time of Boles' interview in May of '99, Boles' father was incarcerated on a weapons violation(10657).
Andrea Cook(5188 )
Says a (redacted-probably Perry) helped get the guns, and that he got them from several female students.
Dan Fleener, teacher(5558 )
Says TCMer David Caravan, boasted of having guns at home.
David Caravan, TCMer(6218 )
He told IOs that he had access to firearms at his residence.
Pat McDuffee(10786)
McDuffee says Joe Stair had many different types of guns, including shotguns. Also says TCMers Charles Phillips and John Beachum may have had weapons.
Jennifer Harmon(8834)
"She had heard that one of their dads owned a gun shop."
(10137)
Robert Perry's dad is a gun collector and "has an arsenal."
Eric Ault(10646)
Says that Harris told him he had access to his parent's guns.
Matt Houck(6633)
Says that Brooks Brown told him that Harris had recently ordered guns(he had just turned 18 and the three-week waiting period was up on 4-20.
Cecilia Grossman(7493)
A resident in the area, Brooks run up to her and ask if he could use the phone. According to her, Brooks told her: "Brown's ex-friend just turned 18 years old and Brown thought that he was getting a gun for his birthday."(Oddly enough, Brooks showed up four days later to 'confirm' that he was talking about Harris.(Taylor, 7687))
Daily News, Los Angeles, 4-25-99
"The investigators also said Thursday that they believed at least some of the weapons used in Tuesday's attack might have been stolen..."
John Veigel(7326)
Purchased Hi-Point rifle in Jan, '99
Benjamin Robert Stevens(8179)
Arrested with a Hi-Point rifle, ser#A54177, in his possession on 5-7-99. He claims he purchased the weapon from a store on 4-19-99, and that he was friends with Klebold and is "still tight with associates of Harris and Klebold."
FBI report, pg83
"...the weapons came from a local militia in the area,....The reason it happened on 4-20 is because they got all the guns and ammo and explosive compounds for free to do it on that date."(unknown source)
On 12-20-99 the BATF sent a letter to JeffCo that the computer search of records in the case is still ongoing(8258 ).(???)
Comment: The case of where H&K got their weaponry is not as clear cut as the police would have us believe. In the case of the Hi-Point and the pump action shotgun there is no apparent visible effort by the IOs to track down who sold them the weapons. In none of the four weapons sales was any receipt or bill of sale issued, as far as I can tell. The police are basically telling us that we have to accept the word of Mark Manes and Robin Anderson, both of whom, it should be noted, may have had motive to go along with the police version of events.
---------------------------------
Notes
DRMN 3-22-00
Two other Tanner exhibitors, Larry Russell and Ray Spain, have been linked to the TEC-DC9 used in the Columbine High killings. Neither have been charged with any wrongdoing for the sale of the weapon, which changed hands many times before ending up with Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
Russell and Spain have been in business together since the early 1990s, running various gun and fireworks operations, according to state records.
But ATF records show that only one man at a time maintains a firearms license, with a slight overlap. Russell had a license from 1990 to August 1997. Then Spain had one from May 1997 to Sept. 10, 1998. And Russell got his current license Sept. 22, 1998.
This business arrangement allows the formerly licensed partner to dispose of inventory without background checks or paperwork, authorities said.
Originally, the TEC-DC9 was registered to Spain's gun business. He then transferred it to his private property. In late summer of 1998, just before Russell got his license for the second time, he sold the gun for Spain at a Tanner Gun Show, according to court records.
The purchaser was Mark Manes, who's now serving six years in prison for selling the TEC-DC9 to juveniles. But Russell told ATF agents he kept no records of the sale.
-----------------------
Getty images
See pg15 of 24
photo of 'Dave's Gunshop' though the sign on the door clearly reads "Dave's Guns and Police Supply." [1842 South Parker Rd, #15, Denver(?-address not on photo caption)]
caption reads:
"6/26/99 Dave's Gunshop near Littleton, where some of the guns used in the Columbine massacre have been traced to."
The only mention of Dave's guns is on page 8136, where it was in the chain of possession of a Glock17 used in a drive-by shooting on 4-18-99. [4-16-96 sale date(see8316)] I have always wondered why these 10 pages were in the 11k; well here is a possible link. Both the pistol and another Tec-9 were listed as being recovered in Littleton on 4-18, no address given. The drive -by occured in the 2800 block of East Euclid Avenue in Arapahoe County; this doesn't correspond to the address of any known TCMer.
westword
http://www.westword.com/2005-01-27/news/word-of-mouth/3
"....at the back of a Thornton strip mall. ...." is a "....gun shop that used to occupy the space between Don Ramon's and Shotz (that) was the shoddy, occasional business where Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold purchased some of the weapons they eventually used at Columbine. In the wake of that tragedy, reporters flooded the gun shop, demanding answers from the reticent owner."
...could be referring to this one:
[http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0430guns1.shtml
Thornton firearms dealer Larry Russell sold the semiautomatic pistol used in the Columbine High School killings at the Tanner Gun Show.
But Russell said Thursday that he kept no record showing who bought the weapon.
The TEC-DC9 ended up in the hands of Eric Harris, one of the two Columbine killers.]
DAVE'S GUNS(?) 1-3-01
http://www.westword.com/issues/2001-03-01/news/feature2.html
After a few years, Anver applied for a federal license to deal firearms. At first he sold them out of his house and at gun shows. In 1992, business was so good that he opened his first store, on Parker Road. Three years after that(1995?), he moved a few miles up the road to his current location, where business has continued to boom. Last year, Dave's Guns was the busiest single federally licensed gun store in the state. The store sold about 8,500 handguns, rifles, shotguns and collectibles.
One reason for Anver's success is niche marketing. He has made a particular effort to court local law-enforcement officers looking to buy guns for their jobs. Today Dave's Guns sells more firearms to more cops than any other local shop.
-- on June 1 (2001), Dave's Guns is burglarized. In all, Anver discovered 38 guns gone.
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
DRMN 4-12-2000
While hordes of gun lovers will angrily protest President Clinton's every move in Denver, Anver — who sells more guns than any other Colorado dealer — will be hanging out with the president.
Clinton is loathed by the gun crowd. His visit today to promote a ballot proposal to close Colorado's so-called gun show loophole has incited a fresh round of animosity.
But not from Anver.
"President Clinton disagreeing with me does not make him an evil person," says the 39-year-old owner of Dave's Guns, a shop in a South Parker Road strip mall.
Today, Anver will pack up an assortment of weapons and head off to MSNBC's gun control town hall as an invited guest, the gun world's unlikely goodwill ambassador.
Half of his $3.7 million in annual gun and ammunition sales are to law enforcement. Cops and ex-cops work at his store.
---Anver let ABC News into his store Monday and will appear with NBC's Tom Brokaw today.
--After all, most of his clients are cops. "Guns are not all drive-by shootings. It's not all about Columbine.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/gun0919.htm
DP 9-19-99
In Colorado, the Columbine High shooting led the Aurora Police Department to reverse a longstanding policy permitting the sale of used and confiscated guns.
But first, the department decided to go ahead with one last sale.
On July 15(1999), Aurora police took 206 guns to a local gun store, Dave's Guns, and received a $19,575 credit toward the purchase of future police supplies.
But after the Columbine High tragedy, (Aurora PD Chief Verne)Saint Vincent decided the risk of putting guns back on the street outweighed the economic benefits to his department.
By then, "we had already in my mind made a commitment to make that deal'' with Dave's Guns, he said. But "I told my executive staff - this is the last one. We're not going to be in the business of doing this anymore.''
Dave Anver, owner of Dave's Guns, has a good reputation with law-enforcement agencies. He buys police guns, sells police supplies and maintains police weapons. Posted inside his front door is a newspaper article on the Denver police gang unit.
--In the last three years, the Department of Corrections has shipped 80 semiautomatic pistols, some with pre-ban magazines, to Anver's store. Denver police sent him 197 used Remington shotguns in a 1996 trade for new shotguns.
Some police guns stay in his shop. But most are shipped to wholesalers, who in turn distribute them nationally to retail gun stores.
--The Jefferson County Sheriff's Department, the agency investigating the Columbine High massacre, sold a few AR-15 assault rifles - a sale Sheriff John Stone said will not be repeated. Two cities in Jefferson County, Lakewood and Littleton, also sold AR-15s made before the assault weapons ban.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/guns1219.htm
Dave's Guns, an Arapahoe County store that reports more multiple sales than any other Colorado dealer
[Interestingly, "Dave's Guns" also sold a weapon to Platte Canyon(Bailey, CO, 9-27-06) school attacker Duane Morrison and also a weapon to New Life Church(Colo Springs) shooter Matthew Murray, 18 (12-9-07).]
http://www.denver-rmn.com/shooting/0424guns9.shtml
DRMN 4-24-99
Federal agents have tracked the two semiautomatic guns used in the Columbine High School massacre -- a TEC-9 pistol and a carbine -- to legal, licensed gun dealers.
But authorities are not saying how the 9mm weapons got into the hands of teens. Or where the dealers are located.
Initially, "they were purchased legally ... from federally licensed firearms dealers," said Jeff Roehm, chief of public information for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.
--TEC-9s are easily fitted with a device called a "hell fire trigger." A shooter can empty a 32-round magazine in seconds, pop it out and reload quickly with this device, according to the Center to Prevent Handgun Violence, part of Handgun Control Inc., the nation's largest anti-gun lobby.
--Few metro-area gun dealers sell TEC-9s, said Dave Anver, of Dave's Guns, a gun store on Parker Road.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/2800951/detail.html
J.T. Trujillo, a law enforcement specialist with Dave's Guns.
--------------------
the Tanner Gun Show, an event that fills the Denver Merchandise Mart nine times a year.
http://careers.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/1214col1.shtml
Federal law prohibits the "straw purchase" of a firearm on behalf of someone who is ineligible to buy it. The two killers were underage.
But the law applies only to guns sold by a licensed federal firearms dealer. ATF agents have determined that Anderson bought two of the three guns from a private person -- not a dealer. But they have not found who sold Anderson the third gun.
If that person turns out to be a licensed dealer and Anderson falsified documents to disguise the purchase, she still could face charges.
http://denver.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0128rbn2.shtml
Outside the hearing room, a woman who claimed she watched Harris, Klebold and Anderson wander through the Tanner Gun Show, waited to testify(before the Colo House Judiciary Committee on 1-27-00).
Pam Volpe, a volunteer for the Firearms Coalition of Colorado, was handing out political pamphlets that day in December 1998. The trio of Columbine students was so immature and boisterous, Volpe said.
For example, the teens noticed a gun-rights banner with a message about gun freedom in America.
"They said, 'Damn straight,"' Volpe recalled. "They were excited."
Also, Anderson was not the timid, naive young woman she appeared to be Tuesday, Volpe said. "She was a very beautiful young woman, and she was very flirtatious," Volpe said. "It was very out of place at a gun show."
8172
Ms. Blodgett provided a dealer list for the Denver CO Tanner Gun Shows on Nov 22 & 23, 1998 and Dec 12&13, 1998. Ms. Blodgett further provided a dealer "floorplan" that documents dealer locations, as she assigns them, during Tanner Gun Shows. ATF retained records. (ATF F 3900.16 property form)
http://www.daves-guns.com/faq.htm
quote from the website: "We love gun shows and you will sometimes find us there on the weekends."
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=751875
Frank DeAngelis "An 18-year-old student went to a gun show in Colorado Springs and bought these weapons and gave them to Klebold and Harris."
[Comment: Colo Springs??]
==============
Cops sold guns to Eric and Dylan at the Tanner Gun Show(TGS)?
The single most incriminating piece of evidence is the refusal of the investigators to tell us who sold H&K the Hi-Point and the pump action shotgun. There is no apparent visible effort in the released documents that the IOs even attempted to track down their identities. No receipt or bill of sale was issued, as far as I can tell. (Though that is true of the other two weapons also.) And usually, when they are hiding something, it's for a reason.
The connection with 'Dave's Guns' comes from a couple of obscure references:
http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Search.aspx?contractUrl=2&language=en-US&family=editorial&p=Columbine%20&assetType=image&src=quick
Getty Images has a photo of 'Dave's Gunshop'(though the sign on the door clearly reads "Dave's Guns and Police Supply") as part of their Columbine collection of photos. (If the page doesn't pop up it's page 9 of 15, in the top row)
The caption provided for the photo reads:
"6/26/99 Dave's Gunshop near Littleton, [b]where some of the guns used in the Columbine massacre have been traced to[/b]."
http://www.westword.com/2005-01-27/news/word-of-mouth/3
{about half way down the page}
"....at the back of a Thornton strip mall. ...." is a "....gun shop that used to occupy the space between Don Ramon's and Shotz (that) was the shoddy, occasional business [b]where Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold purchased some of the weapons[/b] they eventually used at Columbine. In the wake of that tragedy, [b]reporters flooded the gun shop[/b], demanding answers from the reticent owner."
[Comment: I don't remember a single story in the media about any gunshop that may have been the source, directly or indirectly, of the Columbine weapons. Was this aspect of the story deliberately covered up? That's what it sounds like.]
This quote indicates that the shop or its salespeople could have been at the TGS that day:
http://www.daves-guns.com/faq.htm
quote from the website of Dave's Guns: "We love gun shows and you will sometimes [b]find us there on the weekends[/b]."
There is no question that 'Dave's Guns,' and its owner, Dave Anver, had a close relationship to police:
http://www.westword.com/issues/2001-03-01/news/feature2.html
One reason for Anver's success is niche marketing. He has made a particular effort to court local law-enforcement officers looking to buy guns for their jobs. Today Dave's Guns sells more firearms to more cops than any other local shop.
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
--Half of his $3.7 million in annual gun and ammunition sales are to law enforcement. [b]Cops and ex-cops work at his store[/b]. ....most of his clients are cops.
http://extras.denverpost.com/news/gun0919.htm
DP 9-19-99
--On July 15(1999), Aurora police took 206 guns to a local gun store, Dave's Guns, and received a $19,575 credit toward the purchase of future police supplies. .....
--In the last three years, the Department of Corrections has shipped 80 semiautomatic pistols, some with pre-ban magazines, to Anver's store. Denver police sent him 197 used Remington shotguns in a 1996 trade for new shotguns.
--Dave Anver, owner of Dave's Guns, has [b]a good reputation[/b] with law-enforcement agencies. He buys police guns, sells police supplies and maintains police weapons. Posted inside his front door is a newspaper article on the [b]Denver police gang unit[/b].
[Comment: The TCM could indeed be considered a Denver-area gang. Thus the gang unit should have at least known of their existence. But after 4-20, the general attitude of the 'officials'--police and schools--was "trenchcoat who?"]
Dave Anver, far from being a pariah, was feelin' the love after Columbine:
http://autos.rockymountainnews.com/shooting/0412dave1.shtml
DRMN 4-12-2000 (the source describes events on the first anniversary, in April 2000)
While hordes of gun lovers will angrily protest President Clinton's every move in Denver, Anver — who sells more guns than any other Colorado dealer — will be [b]hanging out with the president[/b].
--Today, Anver will pack up an assortment of weapons and head off to [b]MSNBC[/b]'s gun control town hall as an invited guest.... .
--Anver let [b]ABC[/b] News into his store Monday and will appear with [b]NBC[/b]'s Tom Brokaw today.
[Comment: Is this a case of 'hiding in plain site?' Was it a message that Anver was protected and thus not to be bothered? Could it have been a reward for a job well done(quite often interview subjects are paid handsomely)?]
The 12-20-99 issue of Time magazine featured Columbine as its cover story. Inside was a photo of Stone and one of his pogues holding up the Tec9, the Hi-Point, and the double barreled shotgun. The caption said something like "cops hold up the three weapons used in the massacre." There was nothing in the article that mentioned the pump action shotgun, nor was there a retraction/correction printed in the next issue. Even though every version of events prior to this had them using four guns. At the time I thought maybe they were trying to distance themselves from this weapon for some reason.
(8258 )
Also in late December the BATF sent a letter to JeffCo that the computer search of records in the case is still ongoing.
[Comment: I think seven months is more than enough time to do a search of records. One gets the feeling this was just a delaying tactic, in the hope that the questions would fade away.]
Labels: Columbine
posted by starviego at
11:04 PM
0 Comments
The White T-shirt Bomber by FactQuest
The White T-shirt Bomber by FactQuest
There were a couple of publicized interviews of students on 4/20/99, in which students claimed to have seen three suspects. The official report, which came out several months later, claimed that these people were confused. The report claims that they saw Eric Harris both before and after he took of his trench coat, and thus thought that he was two different suspects.
Now, the southwest side of Columbine is where the shooting began, and it is a jumble of corners, angles and hills. People near the West entrance would not be able to see around to the stairs. People by or down the stairs would not be able to see the West entrance. So, only the witnesses further away would have the best perspective on the unfolding events.
What do these witnesses say?
THE WITNESSES
Chris Wisher (page 1261 in the 11,000 pages of released files)
Chris states that he was behind the cafeteria about 100 yards away, and heard what he thought were fireworks. He turned and saw two kids wearing trench coats, and one kid wearing a white T-shirt who was throwing bombs onto the school. One of the trench-coated kids shot a shotgun at him, and then other kid in a trench coat had an automatic rifle. A little later, he and his friends also saw a person with a gun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.
Jake Apodaca (page 653)
He states that he saw 3 suspects, simultaneously. He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats, black berets, black pants, black army boots, and black T-shirts. He had seen them at school before, but could not find them in the yearbook. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt, jeans, light brown hair, that he had not seen him at school before, was seen throwing bombs onto the roof. It is not stated if the 3rd suspect had a gun or not. Jake also states that he saw a gunman with a shotgun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.
Jonathan Cole (page 749)
He states that he had met up with Jake Apodaca and Chris Wisher outside the main West entrance. There, he noticed two tall guys in black trench coats, no hats, one had on a ski mask, and one had "puffy" hair. One had a white T-shirt under his coat, the other had a black or dark T-shirt. These 2 walked over to top of the hill and looked down toward the cafeteria. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, exit the school through the same door. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!". The two suspects pulled out guns and began shooting. Jonathan began running, looked back and saw the person in the white T-shirt throwing some bombs onto the roof, which exploded. Several days later, when students were allowed back into the school to claim their belongings, he saw the white-t-shirted bomb-thrower at the school. This person is described as being 5'10", wearing black glasses, and having collar length blondish brown hair. Jonathan was shown a photo lineup, but could not identify him as one of those suspects. Jonathan was about 73' to 75' away from the gunmen, but could not identify them.
William Arapkiles (page 660)
On 5/5/99, Billy states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen. He saw the gunmen shoot toward the ground and into the air. He saw them shoot one person near the top of the stair, and another at the bottom of the hill, then a third victim that was trying to run away across the parking lot. The shooter then shot at the witnesses on the soccer field. Billy observed actions of one shooter, which seemed to him to be a jammed gun.
Don Arnold (page 666)
Don states that he was on the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned toward the school. He saw a "short, pudgy" male in a white T-shirt that was throwing bombs onto the roof. He did not see this person having a gun. Don saw another male standing at the top of the hill, shooting toward the parking lot. Don had gone shooting with his father before, and knew the sounds of gunshots. He heard two different gunshot sounds -- one was a shotgun, and the other was not. This shooter then turned and shot 5 or 6 time toward the soccer field using a shotgun. He saw that this shotgun was a pump shotgun.
Pat Neville (page 1043)
On 5/6/99, gave an account much like Don Arnold's. He was by the soccer field, heard firecrackers, turned and saw two suspects. One in a black trench coat, tall, all in black, shooting people with a long gun. The other had a white T-shirt, blue jeans, no visible gun, and was throwing bombs onto the roof.
Arthur Curtis (page 765)
Arthur was also on the soccer field. He only saw 2 shooters. One was tall, with long hair, and wore a black trench, the other wore a white T-shirt. He saw the one in the black trench coat carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Arthur states that he could identify the one in the trench coat if given a picture. He saw them shoot at groups of people and at the soccer field witnesses. He reported that the one in the white T-shirt descended the stairs, fired a few shots, and went back up the stairs.
Mike Kenny (page 93
Mike was also on the soccer field when here heard a noise like firecrackers. He looked and saw two people about 100 yards away. One was in a black trench coat and black pants and was holding a TEC-9, the other was about 10 feet behind him and was wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. They appeared to be together. The one in the trench coat was shooting, but Mike couldn't tell if the one in the white T-shirt was shooting or not. The trench coat shooter shot at the players on the soccer field, who ducked and ran. Mike looked back, and saw explosions on the roof. He did not see anyone throw a bomb up there, but either of the two suspects he did see could have thrown a bomb to that location.
Jason Brehm (page 71
On 5/5/99, Jason give the following information: Jason walked out the West main doors, and saw a figure in a black trench coat, leaning against a post outside the library North door. This person was a little shorter than 5'11", with a round face, and was not Eric or Harris. This person had a black hat turned backward, black boots, and one pants leg tucked into a boot. This person also has a large, full, black nylon bag with straps at his feet. Jason walked to the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned around. He turned, and saw the guy in the trench coat still there, with smoke rising beside him. He said this lone gunman walked down and back up the stair, shooting, then threw some bombs onto the roof, then ran back down the stairs and shot a different, louder gun, which Jason thinks was a shotgun. He thinks that was when Lance Kirkland was shot in the face. As Jason was running away, he saw a figure in a white T-shirt walking calmly from the parking lot towards the shooter.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods (page 126
J-u-s-t-i-n was on the soccer field, and states that he was about 50 feet away, and saw two guys come out of the West entrance of the school. He identifies one shooter as Dylan, describes him as wearing a trench coat, a black hat, and no mask, carrying a handgun with a banana clip. He says that the other suspect wore a white shirt, black pants, boots, not hat, no mask, and more clean-cut that the other. This suspect had a shotgun, leaned against the fence and shot at people. Klebold was shooting at @#%$ and the other people on the soccer field as they ran away. He heard explosions, and saw smoke on the roof of the school.
Bryan Stepp (page 1179)
On 4/30/99, Bryan stated that he was playing soccer, and saw two guys near the West main entrance. One was wearing all black, black cargo pants, black trench coat, and a hat. The other suspect was wearing a black trench coat and a white shirt, and a hat. He saw the first suspect bend down and light fireworks or pipe bombs. When he stood up, Bryan could see he held a gun with a banana clip. He said that someone walked out of the West entrance door, and this suspect shot at this person, who then fell down. Bryan said that this suspect shot at students down the hill from him, and they all ran away except one, then the shooter shot at the student in the soccer field, who fled. When Bryan looked again, he heard explosions and saw smoke above the roof of the school. He also saw the banana-clip shooter shoot out the windows in the double doors of the West main entrance, then both shooters walked down the stairs toward the cafeteria, where they shot out a window.
Evan Vitale (page 1243)
On 4/20/99, Evan stated that he was in the Sr. parking lot, in a car that was about to leave school. He heard a "pop pop pop" and looked, and saw a kid on the top of the hill, shooting a rifle, about 30 shots. This gunman was wearing a white T-shirt, a trench coat, black pants, had dark hair and dark skin. He saw another individual in a dark trench coat, a black ball cap worn backwards, and long, blond hair, who was running up and down the stairs outside the West side of the cafeteria. As the car began pulling out, Evan noticed a third suspect. This person was stand by the wall next to the West side of the cafeteria. This suspect was holding a pump shotgun, and wore a white shirt and black pants. He was very sure this was not Dylan. Evan did not believe it possible for this suspect to be the same as the shooter on the hill, as it seemed that this would have required this person to move too far too fast.
Trent Karnes (page 911)
Trent was the driver of the car Evan Vitale was riding in. He was in the parking lot when he heard what he thought was someone roofing. It was 6 or 7 rapid gunshots. He turned and saw a person at the top of the outside stairs, holding a rifle, leaning on a fence, shooting down the hill at people. He was wearing a white dress shirt, black dress pants, and a thin black vest. Trent saw another person, about 6'2" or 6'3" tall, in a black trench coat, black pants, medium brown shoulder length hair, a black leather hat, and sunglasses. He saw this person running up and down the stairs, apparently looking at the victims between groups of shots by the first person. Trent estimated the distance at between 100 and 200 yards. He also mentions that there was a kid wearing a white T-shirt and faded blue jean shorts, standing, watching and smiling. He thinks this kid was not part of it, only that he thought it was a joke, as apparently did the other people he saw smiling as they ran.
Mindy Pollock (page 1093)
On 4/26/99, she gave this information to the FBI: She was about to get into Trent's car with Evan, where she heard firecrackers. She looked, and saw a man running up and down the stairs, and another standing at the top of the stairs shooting people. She thought is a skit. She described the running man as wearing black pants, black shirt, a black hat backwards, a black trench coat, and carrying a silver handgun, which she did not see him shoot. She described the shooter as wearing black pants, a white shirt, black suspenders, a red hat backwards, and a huge black gun.
THE CONCLUSIONS
Summary table deleted here. I'll edit in a reformatted version later.
We know Harris was wearing a white T-shirt, but did the investigators come to the correct conclusion that every sighting of a suspect in a white T-shirt was Harris? Of the 15 sightings listed above, only 7 are consistent with Harris. Even with these 7, 3 are clearly inconsistent with the official timeline. (See detailed analysis of the witnesses' accounts below.) Put another way: of the 14 people that witnessed these events, only 4 gave statements consistent with the description and activities of Eric Harris, as seen in the Sheriff's Report.
Most telling however, is that no less than 4 witnesses saw 3 suspects AT THE SAME TIME. These 4 witnesses were Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles. This is very, very strong corroboration - corroboration that was either overlooked or ignored. Two others had strong evidence of a third suspect. These two were Don Arnold and Evan Vitale.
It is certainly reasonable to assume that not every witness will see every suspect. So, for the sake of argument, lets suppose that there was a third, T-shirt wearing bomb thrower, and see how well the witnesses' statements support this. Please note we will not be counting the failure to notice a suspect as an anomaly. This could easily be accounted for by a bad angle, or by the witness focusing on the more immediate threat rather than surveying the scene carefully.
Since we know that Harris wore a white shirt as well, how can we tell the two apart? Well, Harris wore black pants, had a gun, and spent all of his time outside the school at the top of the hill, shooting people (according to the official report). The possible 3rd suspect, as reported by the 4 witnesses who saw 3 suspects at once, wore blue jeans, had no gun, and threw bombs onto the roof.
Do any of the other witnesses report a shooter that more closely matches our hypothetical bomber? Lets examine each:
Don Arnold: The description of the trench-coated shooter with a pump shotgun, shooting from the top of the hill, much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Since the suspect in the white T-shirt does not match Klebold at all, he must be a 3rd suspect. Don hears two distinct weapons, but the suspect in the white T-shirt did not have a gun, which also strongly indicates a 3rd suspect.
Pat Neville: The description of the trench-coated shooter much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Which means the suspect in the white T-shirt must be a 3rd suspect.
Arthur Curtis: The description of this suspect in a white T-shirt fits Harris very well.
Mike Kenny: This report has little information, but Mike did notice the explosion, and since the suspect in the white T-shirt was wearing blue jeans and had no visible gun, it does give more support to the white T bomber theory.
Jason Brehm: This muddled account is mostly likely a combination of Harris and Klebold.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods: A sighting of Harris without a gun seems most likely. Who threw the bombs is unclear.
Bryan Stepp: Given the sparse details, it is most likely Harris
Evan Vitale: The 3rd suspect could possibly have been Harris. Even if it was not, this suspect is not the white T-shirt bomber as described above.
Trent Karnes: The shooting suspect in a white T-shirt is consistent with Harris. The other person mentioned seems most likely to be uninvolved
Mindy Pollock: This suspect also is consistent with Harris.
So, let's try these groupings:
Arthur Curtis, Jason Brehm, J-u-s-t-i-n Woods, Bryan Stepp, Trent Karnes, Mindy Pollock, and Evan Vitale do not report seeing this white T-shirt bomber. The person in a white T-shirt that they do see conforms well to Harris's description. If we assume that the official timeline is erroneous in not having Harris go down the stairs, then they are very consistent.
Don Arnold, Pat Neville, and Mike Kenny saw a suspect that very strongly supports the account of the bomber seen by Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles.
SUMMARY:
There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber.
Switching to this theory instead of a two-shooter theory, the number of anomalous testimonies falls from 11 to 4. (Evan, Jason, Trent and Mindy all reported a shooter that may not have been Eric or Dylan).
Of the 14 witnesses, four witnesses saw him simultaneously with Eric and Dylan, and 3 other witnesses saw him with one of the two shooters.
Put in percents:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 73%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 28%
If we factor out the anomalies that do not directly relate to the white T-shirt bomber, we have:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 50%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 0% None. Zip.
Seven corroborating witnesses, four of whom saw 3 suspects simultaneously. Furthermore, none of the seven reports about the white T-shirt bomber contradict each other. And the theory much more closely aligns with the actual witnesses' reports than does the official report.
Could it be any plainer than that?
There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber.
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etailed witness analysis
Chris Wisher (page 1261)
On 4/20/99, he gave a quick written statement. He saw 3 people simultaneously, 2 in black trench coats and one in a white T-shirt. Chris and his friends were about 100 yards away, and were shot at. He saw the person in the white T-shirt throw a bomb on the roof. A little later, he and his friends also saw a person with a gun hiding in the bushes in Weaver park.
Later on 4/20/99, he gave a longer statement. Chris states that he was behind the cafeteria and heardwhat he thought were fireworks. He turned and saw two kids wearing trench coats, and one kid wearing awhite T-shirt who was throwing bombs onto the school. He says he believes one of the kids is [redacted] (ie, not Eric or Dylan).
One of the trench-coated kids shot a shotgun at him, then other kid in a trench coat had an automatic rifle.
Also on 4/20/99, he talks to the media, recounting the same facts as above.
On 4/27/99, FBI agent Harris records a slightly different account. On his way to the soccer field from the cafeteria, he hears what he thinks are fireworks and turns around. He sees a tall guy, all in black, with a black trench coat, a black hat, and sunglasses. He thinks it is someone that is redacted (ie, not Dylan or Eric), who is a member of the Trench Coat Mafia. This person shoots a shotgun at people nearby 3 times, then turns and shoots 4 or 5 times at Chris and his friends, who duck. This shooter then moves towards the SW cafeteria entrance. Chris then sees a person in blue jeans and a short-sleeved white T-shirt, who throws a silvery object onto the roof, which explodes. Chris hears very rapid gunfire from within the school, while simultaneously seeing the trench-coated shooter and the T-shirted bomber.
Finally, on 10/12/99, Chris is asked again about his redacted ID. Chris says that this was his impression, that one of the gunmen was [Redacted], but that he was not sure. Chris says he is positive that it was NOT [different Redacted]. Chris is shown a photo from the cafeteria tape, and Chris states that these two guys are indeed the people he saw outside.
So - how many suspects did Chris see? In all three accounts on 4/20, the number is 3 (well, 4 if you count the gunman in the bushes in Weaver park). On 4/27, one of the gunmen has apparently has moved into the school, firing a weapon. And on 10/12, it reads like he only see two, except for the "one of the gunmen" statement -- the white T-shirted figure was never said to have a gun, so there is still room for 3.
Why didn't the FBI officer seek to clarify the numbers? Surely he would have to account for the discrepancy, but he does not.
Why didn't any of the follow-up interviews ask ANY questions about a gunman in the bushes in Weaver park?
If the suspect in the white shirt were Harris, then the person shooting at Chris would have to have been Klebold. The official story says that Klebold only fired 5 shots outside the school -- but Chris counted 7 or 8 shots.
Jake Apodaca (page 653)
On 4/20/99, he states that he saw 3 suspects, simultaneously. He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats, black berets, black pants, black army boots, and black T-shirts. He had seen them at school before, but could not find them in the yearbook. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt, jeans, light brown hair, that he had not seen him at school before, was seen throwing bombs onto the roof. It is not stated if the 3rd suspect had a gun or not. Jake also states that he saw a gunman with a shotgun hiding in the bushes in Weaver park.
On 4/27/99, Jake tells the FBI that he and his friends were walking from the cafeteria toward the soccer field, heard what they thought were firecrackers. They turned, and Jake saw two guys crouched down by the NW corner of the cafeteria. One was wearing a white short sleeved T-shirt, blue jeans, and had no visible weapon, the other was all in black, with a black trench coat, a black beret, and a black mask. Jake saw the guy in the white T-shirt throw two bombs onto the roof. Then he saw the guy in the black trench coat shoot at three people with a shotgun, then turned and shot 4 or 5 times at Jake and his friends, about 40 or 50 yards away, who ducked.
Again, why did the FBI agent (agent Harris) fail to clarify the numbers from Jake's previous statement? And why is there no mention of the gunman in the bushes?
Again, if the person in the white T-shirt is Harris, then Klebold has to have shot at least 7 rounds outside, not 5 as the official story claims.
But more ominously, this is the second witness who claimed to have seen 3 suspects, but in the reports filed by FBI agent Harris, it reads as two suspects.
Jonathan Cole (page 749)
Interestingly, the only report released from Jonathan Cole was the interview he gave on 6/1/99 to FBI agent Holloway. In it, he states that he had met up with Jake Apodaca and Chris Wisher outside the main West entrance.There he noticed two tall guys in black trench coats, no hats, one had on a ski mask, one had "puffy" hair. One had a white T-shirt under his coat, the other had a black or dark T-shirt. These 2 walked over to top of the hill and looked down toward the cafeteria. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, exit the school through the same door. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!". The two suspects pulled out guns and began shooting. Jonathan began running, looked back and saw the person in the white T-shirt throw some bombs onto the roof, which exploded. Several days later, when students were allowed back into the school to claim their belongings, he saw the white-t-shirted bomb-thrower at the school. This person is described as being 5'10", wearing black glasses, and having collar length blondish brown hair. Jonathan was shown a photo lineup, but could not identify him as one of those suspects. Jonathan was about 73' to 75' away from the gunmen, but could not identify them. Agent Holloway notes in the report that the interviews of Jake and Chris only show one trench-coated gunman.
Jonathan's parents do not allow him to be interviewed again.
First, why was this the only interview released? Almost all the other student who saw shooters had had two or three interviews by this time. I would be very surprised if Jonathan had not. Yet, they were not released.
Second, Holloway's note about the interviews of Jake and Chris not corroborating Jonathan's account of three suspects is outrageous. That is NOT what they say! Did Holloway only read Harris's report? Did Harris intentionally bury the 3rd suspect aspect of their prior statements, knowing that Holloway would only read the FBI reports?
Third, the Official Report makes mention of the "GO!! GO!!" statement, but attributes it to Harris. Yet Jonathan is the only witness to have recounted someone yelling this. Ironic that LE would give that much weight to this single aspect of his statement, yet completely reject the corroborated statement of seeing 3 suspects simultaneously.
William Arapkiles (page 660)
In the released information, there is a brief undated statement, which can safely be assumed to be given on 4/20/99. In it, he states that he saw two guys with guns and grenades. One had a black trench coat, was 6' tall, and shot at William (Billy) and his friends.
On 5/5/99, Billy states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen. He saw the gunmen shoot toward the ground and into the air. He saw them shoot one person near the top of the stair, and another at the bottom of the hill, then a third victim that was trying to run away across the parking lot. The shooter then shot at the witnesses on the
soccer field. Billy observed actions of one shooter, which seemed to him to be a jammed gun.
No other interviews have been released, if they were conducted.
Why would the investigators leave it at this?
Don Arnold (page 666)
Only one interview with Don Arnold was released, dated 5/11/99, with the FBI. In it, Don states that he was on the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned toward the school. He saw a "short, pudgy" male in a white T-shirt that was throwing bombs onto the roof. He did not see this person having a gun. Don saw another male standing at the top of the hill, shooting toward the parking lot. Don had gone shooting with his father before, and knew the sounds of gunshots. He heard two different gunshot sounds -- one was a shotgun, and the other was not. This shooter then turned and shot 5 or 6 time toward the soccer field using a shotgun. He saw that this shotgun was a pump shotgun.
Given the FBI's previous track record in Wisher's and Apodaca's interviews, I wonder what Don's earlier statements may have said.
Even granting that Don may have only seen two suspects, he still strongly indicates the presence of three participants.
Also, the official story has Eric Harris using the pump shotgun, but also as the white T-shirt bomb thrower. In this account, he clearly cannot have been both.
Pat Neville (page 1043)
On 5/6/99, gave an account much like Don Arnold's. He was by the soccer field, heard firecrackers, turned and saw two suspects. One in a black trench coat, tall, all in black, shooting people with a long gun. The other had a white T-shirt, blue jeans, no visible gun, and was throwing bombs onto the roof.
Again, we must wonder about the lack of earlier statements.
Arthur Curtis (page 765)
Arthur was also on the soccer field. He only saw 2 shooters. One was tall, with long hair, and wore a black trench, the other wore a white T-shirt. He saw the one in the black trench coat carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Arthur states that he could identify the one in the trench coat if given a picture. He saw them shoot at groups of people and at the soccer field witnesses. He reported that the one in the white T-shirt descended the stairs, fired a few shots, and went back up the stairs.
So, why wasn't he given the opportunity to make an ID? Or was he, but that report was not released?
And, if we assume that this white T-shirted shooter is Harris, we must note that this contradicts the official timeline, which never has Harris descending the stairs.
Mike Kenny (page 93
Mike was also on the soccer field when here heard a noise like firecrackers. He looked and saw two people about 100 yards away. One was in a black trench coat and black pants and was holding a TEC-9, the other was about 10 feet behind him and was wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. They appeared to be together. The one in the trench coat was shooting, but Mike couldn't tell if the one in the white T-shirt was shooting or not. The trench coat shooter shot at the players on the soccer field, who ducked and ran. Mike looked back, and saw an explosion on the roof. He saw other explosions on the roof. He did not see anyone throw a bomb up there, but either of the two suspects he did see could have thrown a bomb to that location.
Knowing that both Harris and Klebold wore a trench coat for at least some of the time, and having no other characteristics than a media-hyped gun description, it could quite easily have been either of them in the trench coat.
The white T-shirt and blue jeans suspect is not seen with a gun, but is present when the bombs explode on the roof.
Jason Brehm (page 71
On 5/5/99, Jason give the following information: Jason walked out the West main doors, and saw a figure in a black trench coat, leaning against a post outside the library North door. This person was a little shorter than 5'11", with a round face, and was not Eric or Harris. This person had a black hat turned backward, black boots, and one pants leg tucked into a boot. This person also has a large, full, black nylon bag with straps at his feet. Jason walked to the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned around. He turned, and saw the guy in the trench coat still there, with smoke rising beside him. He said this lone gunman walked down and back up the stair, shooting, then threw some bombs onto the roof, then ran back down the stairs and shot a different, louder gun, which Jason thinks was a shotgun. He thinks that was when Lance Kirkland was shot in the face. As Jason was running away, he saw a figure in a white T-shirt walking calmly from the parking lot towards the shooter.
Interesting that he got such a close look at the figure by the post, and identifies him as someone other than Eric and Dylan. Yet this merits no follow-up interviews, or photo lineups, or any interest whatsoever from the investigators.
Sure, this person saw after the "firecrackers" may not have been the same person he walked right by. But it could have. More importantly, this person may have been at least an accomplice, helping to carry in the explosives or something.
That said, the investigators probably saw this testimony as hopelessly muddled, in that Jason ascribes to one shooter all the activities that the other witnesses ascribe to two or more shooters.
But, again note the appearance of a person in a white T-shirt.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods (page 126
J-u-s-t-i-n was on the soccer field, and states that he was about 50 feet away, and saw two guys come out of the West entrance of the school. He identifies one shooter as Dylan, describes him as wearing a trench coat, a black hat, and no mask, carrying a handgun with a banana clip. He says that the other suspect wore a white shirt, black pants, boots, not hat, no mask, and more clean-cut that the other. This suspect had a shotgun, leaned against the fence and shot at people. J-u-s-t-i-n and the other people on the soccer field were being shot at by Klebold as the ran away. He heard explosions, and saw smoke on the roof of the school.
So, while he did not indicate a third suspect, he does corroborate that bombs were thrown onto the roof, and does not indicate that Eric or Dylan did it.
Bryan Stepp 1179
On 4/30/99, Bryan stated that he was playing soccer, and saw two guys near the West main entrance. One was wearing all black, black cargo pants, black trench coat, and a hat. The other suspect was wearing a black trench coat and a white shirt, and a hat. He saw the first suspect bend down and light fireworks or pipe bombs. When he stood up, Bryan could see he held a gun with a banana clip. He said that someone walked out of the West entrance door, and this suspect shot at this person, who then fell down. Bryan said that this suspect shot at students down the hill from him, and they all ran away except one, then the shooter shot at the student in the soccer field, who fled. When Bryan looked again, he heard explosions and saw smoke above the roof of the school. He also saw the banana-clip shooter shoot out the windows in the double doors of the West main entrance, then both shooters walked down the stairs toward the cafeteria, where they shot out a window.
While there is no mention of a 3rd suspect, it is quite interesting to note that the official story does not have a casualty for a person being shot as they exit that door. Nor does it have Harris going down the stairs with Klebold. The official story also has Harris as the person shooting down the hill, and shooting out the door windows.
And, he does corroborate that bombs were thrown onto the roof, and does not indicate that it was Eric or Dylan.
Evan Vitale (page 1243)
On 4/20/99, Evan stated that he was in the Sr. parking lot, in a car that was about to leave school. He heard a "pop pop pop" and looked, and saw a kid on the top of the hill, shooting a rifle, about 30 shots. This gunman was wearing a white T-shirt, a trench coat, black pants, had dark hair and dark skin. He saw another individual in a dark trench coat, a black ball cap worn backwards, and long, blond hair, who was running up and down the stairs outside the West side of the cafeteria.
On 5/11/99, he is interviewed again. The officer notes that Evan mentions being interviewed before, but the office is unable to find that interview using the FBI's Rapid Start tracking system.
Evan gives a little more detail -- the gunman on the hill is now stated to be a white male, whose face he could not see. This shooter was resting his long gun on the fence as he shot it toward the grassy areas by the cafeteria. He was wearing a white shirt, black pants, and had dark hair or a dark hat. The other suspect, who was running up and down the stairs, was wearing black pants, a black shirt, a black trench coat, and a black ball cap, backwards. He did not see this person carrying a gun, but states that this person was Dylan Klebold. Then, as the car began pulling out, Evan noticed a third suspect. This person was stand by the wall next to the West side of the cafeteria. This suspect was holding a pump shotgun, and wore a white shirt and black pants. He was very sure this was not Dylan. Evan did not believe it possible for this suspect to be the same as the shooter on the hill, as it seemed that this would have required this person to move too far too fast.
Between 10/18/99 and 11/9/99, Evan missed 5 interview appointments.
On 11/16/99, Evan was interviewed again, because he had described a possible third shooter. Evan recounts the exact same events and details. Evan says that third shooter may have been Eric Harris, having since seen photos of him. The officer points out that Evans account leaves time for the uphill shooter to have moved down hill. Evan agrees that this could be possible. The investigator, apparently satisfied with Evan's answers, ends the interview.
So, could that third, shotgun-wielding shooter have been Harris? Conceivably, but the official timeline does not place Harris in that location -- then, or at other time. So, either it WAS a 3rd shooter, or the timeline is wrong. Or BOTH! How, exactly, does this make for a satisfactory conclusion for the investigator?
Trent Karnes (page 911)
Trent was the driver of the car Evan Vitale was riding in.
On 4/21/99, he was in the parking lot when he heard what he thought was someone roofing. It was 6 or 7 rapid gunshots. He turned and saw a person at the top of the outside stairs, holding a rifle, leaning on afence, shooting down the hill at people. He was wearing a white dress shirt, black dress pants, and a thin black vest. Trent saw another person, in a black trench coat, black pants, long hair, and sunglasses. He saw this person running up and down the stairs, apparently looking at the victims between groups of shots by the first person. Trent estimated the distance at between 100 and 200 yards.
On 4/27/99, he gave another statement. He described the second figure as above, adding that he was about 6'2" or 6'3", his hair was medium brown and shoulder length, he was wearing a black leather hat, and possibly a white shirt. Trent says he does not believe this was one of the suspects shown on television, and that he had seen this suspect at school before, but not this year. He now estimates his distance as about 80 yards.
On 5/6/99, he gives another statement. He further describes the black leather hat as "either an English style leather cap with the kind of short visor that snaps or a ball cap. He did not see this suspect holding a gun. He does mention that the shooter was the shorter of the two. And, he now mentions that there was a kid wearing a white T-shirt and faded blue jean shorts, standing, watching and smiling. He thinks this kid was not part of it, only that he thought it was a joke, as apparently did the other people he saw smiling as they ran. Trent is shown a photo lineup, and he picks "#4" as possibly the taller guy with the hat and sunglasses.
Okay, Trent's description of the shooter with the thin vest is a very accurate description of Eric Harris's clothes. Very few other witnesses describe him in a white shirt, black pants, with a black vest. But is the second shooter Dylan Klebold? While he mentions a ball cap, it seems he really thinks it was a different type of leather cap. And, this person does not appear to have a gun.
More importantly, the photo lineup suspect "#4" is not named -- but everywhere else that a witness names Eric or Dylan, the officer notes that in the report. This can only mean that he ID'ed someone other than Dylan and Eric.
He mentions a guy on a white T-shirt and blue jeans, but shorts, not long pants, and he does not see him, or anyone else, throw any bombs. Is this the same person? It's hard to tell, but it does seem congruent.
Mindy Pollock (page 1093)
On 4/26/99, she gave this information to the FBI: She was about to get into Trent's car with Evan, whereshe heard firecrackers. She looked, and saw a man running up and down the stairs, and another standing at the top of the stairs shooting people. She thought is a skit. She described the running man as wearing black pants, black shirt, a black hat backwards, a black trench coat, and carrying a silver handgun, which she did not see him shoot. She described the shooter as wearing black pants, a white shirt, black suspenders, a hat, and a huge black gun.
On 5/4/99, she names gives additional information. For the running gunman, she identifies him, but the name is redacted. She states here certainty as an 8-9 on a scale of 10, and mentions knowing him from last year but not seeing him since. She describes the trench coat as black, mid-shin length, made of cloth, with no patches. The hat was a black baseball cap, backwards. She describes his face as long, with a pointed nose, looked like "a giant rat", and had a light complexion and a moustache. He wore black boots. She describes the other gunman as wearing looser black pants and black boots, a white dress-type shirt with front buttons, a red hat on backwards, and a long black gun.
On 10/8/99, she is interviewed regarding the ID of the gunman as "Redacted". The officer shows her more current photos of Dylan Klebold, and she agrees that this is who she saw, and that the handgun matches Klebold's weapon as well.
It seems rather odd that she can go from near-certainty that it was a "Redacted" to sure that it was Klebold. The description is very detailed, and matches Klebold except for the mustache, and perhaps the subjective facial descriptions. But the description of a silver handgun does not come very close to either the dark TEC-9 or the sawed-off shotgun that Klebold carried. Her description of the shooter that has tobe Harris is fairly accurate too, if you count the suspenders as a near miss on the black vest. The red hat is an odd note, though.
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Here are some other references to a suspect in a white t-shirt and/or blue jeans:
Loni Brown(724)
"Loni said that she saw a guy running up the hill during the shooting, and he was wearing a white t-shirt that possible had a design on the back, and maybe blue jeans. She said he had dark blonde/light brown hair with light streaks, cut short." (If she was right about the blue jeans, this definitely could not have been Harris, though she was unsure if he was one of the suspects.)
Tony Doty(777)
"He then saw a male in a white t-shirt and blue jeans holding a handgun walk from a corner near the cafeteria. ...he fired the handgun at him, and he heard the bullet 'whiz' by his head." Not Harris.
Autumn Hettinger( )
Before the attack "saw Klebold and Harris with a third party wearing a white t-shirt, talking. This individual stayed in the lot down between the cars during the incident.
Stefanie Haney(829)
Sees H&K and one other entering south, main cafeteria entrance at 11:10-11:15am. "Haney also described a third male walking with Harris and Klebold. The white male looked older than a high school student and she did not recognize him from any of the four years she has attended CHS. The unknown male was about the same height as Harris, his hair was dark in a kind of bowl cut and shaved on the sides. He was wearing a white t-shirt or v-necked shirt... with its sleeves rooled up one or twice."
Jessica Guertz(3134)
"Jessica said she saw two guys dressed in trenchcoats, and a guy in a white t-shirt possibly with them standing near the cement stairs. ...She thought it was strange that the three were standing so calmly, when everybody else was so panicked. The adult in the white shirt was tall and thin."(6')
Kent Friesen, teacher(5873)
Was in restroom, then obesrved two suspects walking in a sourthern direction who has just exited the library. ID'ed Klebold("he is certain"); shorter one wearing 'pale colored clothes"--white t-shirt, light blue pants, 5'9". H&K had been to his house. (The implication is that this other shooter defintely wasn't Harris)
Joey Marcotte(10010)
Describes white male, 5'8"-6'0" tall, real skinny, blue ball cap, short blond hair, white t-shirt with blood on it, ammo vest, baggy blue jeans.
Others:
Heidi Johnson(443)
In the library, said shooter had tan, black, and white cami pants and brownish blond hair, very short, like a crew cut. (The pants are an oddity, but the haircut reminds one of 'dark hair with blond spikes and shaved sides')
Al Martin(991)
Sees gunman come out of west doors, suspect wearing white t-shirt under black long sleeve shirt with light blue pants. 5'7"-5'8", 15-17, thin.
Michael Bogacz(5596)
"...he added that as he existed the building he saw a guy near the baseball field to the west wearing a white t-shirt carrying something in his hand, but he couldn't make out what it was. The strange thing to Michael was that the subject was not too concerned about getting anywhere very fast."
Sally Hocker(7511)
Onlooker in Clement Park, hears big explosion from CHS at 11:30am. At 11:31, noticed male, 17-18, white t-shirt, blue jeans, walking down the hill from the soccer field, away from the school. He was very calm, walking in a nonchalant manner. "She then observed two, slightly older males(19+) walking northbound on a path leading out of a housing-area greenbelt." They were wearing all black with short black coats. The three met and talked briefly. "According to Hocker, the meeting appeared to be prearranged and very matter-of-fact. ... the three parties were very calm, showing no emotion."
JC-001-012984
Lisa(Armstrong) reported to Det. Demmel that on Tues. the 20th at about 7:15a.m. in the morning that she was driving by Columbine High School on Pierce St. when she observed a young man 19 to 20 years old, 6' -6'2" who was heavy and overweight with blue eyes, short brown hair--a buzz cut--and no hat. The party was wearing a trench coat, light(blue?) jeans, didn't look like a student and really stood out. Lisa observed the party as he walked west across Pierce St. with other students around him but she said he seemed to be in a daze and by himself.
[Comment: This sounds a lot like the white t-shirted bomber]
There were a couple of publicized interviews of students on 4/20/99, in which students claimed to have seen three suspects. The official report, which came out several months later, claimed that these people were confused. The report claims that they saw Eric Harris both before and after he took of his trench coat, and thus thought that he was two different suspects.
Now, the southwest side of Columbine is where the shooting began, and it is a jumble of corners, angles and hills. People near the West entrance would not be able to see around to the stairs. People by or down the stairs would not be able to see the West entrance. So, only the witnesses further away would have the best perspective on the unfolding events.
What do these witnesses say?
THE WITNESSES
Chris Wisher (page 1261 in the 11,000 pages of released files)
Chris states that he was behind the cafeteria about 100 yards away, and heard what he thought were fireworks. He turned and saw two kids wearing trench coats, and one kid wearing a white T-shirt who was throwing bombs onto the school. One of the trench-coated kids shot a shotgun at him, and then other kid in a trench coat had an automatic rifle. A little later, he and his friends also saw a person with a gun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.
Jake Apodaca (page 653)
He states that he saw 3 suspects, simultaneously. He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats, black berets, black pants, black army boots, and black T-shirts. He had seen them at school before, but could not find them in the yearbook. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt, jeans, light brown hair, that he had not seen him at school before, was seen throwing bombs onto the roof. It is not stated if the 3rd suspect had a gun or not. Jake also states that he saw a gunman with a shotgun hiding in the bushes in Weaver Park.
Jonathan Cole (page 749)
He states that he had met up with Jake Apodaca and Chris Wisher outside the main West entrance. There, he noticed two tall guys in black trench coats, no hats, one had on a ski mask, and one had "puffy" hair. One had a white T-shirt under his coat, the other had a black or dark T-shirt. These 2 walked over to top of the hill and looked down toward the cafeteria. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, exit the school through the same door. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!". The two suspects pulled out guns and began shooting. Jonathan began running, looked back and saw the person in the white T-shirt throwing some bombs onto the roof, which exploded. Several days later, when students were allowed back into the school to claim their belongings, he saw the white-t-shirted bomb-thrower at the school. This person is described as being 5'10", wearing black glasses, and having collar length blondish brown hair. Jonathan was shown a photo lineup, but could not identify him as one of those suspects. Jonathan was about 73' to 75' away from the gunmen, but could not identify them.
William Arapkiles (page 660)
On 5/5/99, Billy states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen. He saw the gunmen shoot toward the ground and into the air. He saw them shoot one person near the top of the stair, and another at the bottom of the hill, then a third victim that was trying to run away across the parking lot. The shooter then shot at the witnesses on the soccer field. Billy observed actions of one shooter, which seemed to him to be a jammed gun.
Don Arnold (page 666)
Don states that he was on the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned toward the school. He saw a "short, pudgy" male in a white T-shirt that was throwing bombs onto the roof. He did not see this person having a gun. Don saw another male standing at the top of the hill, shooting toward the parking lot. Don had gone shooting with his father before, and knew the sounds of gunshots. He heard two different gunshot sounds -- one was a shotgun, and the other was not. This shooter then turned and shot 5 or 6 time toward the soccer field using a shotgun. He saw that this shotgun was a pump shotgun.
Pat Neville (page 1043)
On 5/6/99, gave an account much like Don Arnold's. He was by the soccer field, heard firecrackers, turned and saw two suspects. One in a black trench coat, tall, all in black, shooting people with a long gun. The other had a white T-shirt, blue jeans, no visible gun, and was throwing bombs onto the roof.
Arthur Curtis (page 765)
Arthur was also on the soccer field. He only saw 2 shooters. One was tall, with long hair, and wore a black trench, the other wore a white T-shirt. He saw the one in the black trench coat carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Arthur states that he could identify the one in the trench coat if given a picture. He saw them shoot at groups of people and at the soccer field witnesses. He reported that the one in the white T-shirt descended the stairs, fired a few shots, and went back up the stairs.
Mike Kenny (page 93
Mike was also on the soccer field when here heard a noise like firecrackers. He looked and saw two people about 100 yards away. One was in a black trench coat and black pants and was holding a TEC-9, the other was about 10 feet behind him and was wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. They appeared to be together. The one in the trench coat was shooting, but Mike couldn't tell if the one in the white T-shirt was shooting or not. The trench coat shooter shot at the players on the soccer field, who ducked and ran. Mike looked back, and saw explosions on the roof. He did not see anyone throw a bomb up there, but either of the two suspects he did see could have thrown a bomb to that location.
Jason Brehm (page 71
On 5/5/99, Jason give the following information: Jason walked out the West main doors, and saw a figure in a black trench coat, leaning against a post outside the library North door. This person was a little shorter than 5'11", with a round face, and was not Eric or Harris. This person had a black hat turned backward, black boots, and one pants leg tucked into a boot. This person also has a large, full, black nylon bag with straps at his feet. Jason walked to the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned around. He turned, and saw the guy in the trench coat still there, with smoke rising beside him. He said this lone gunman walked down and back up the stair, shooting, then threw some bombs onto the roof, then ran back down the stairs and shot a different, louder gun, which Jason thinks was a shotgun. He thinks that was when Lance Kirkland was shot in the face. As Jason was running away, he saw a figure in a white T-shirt walking calmly from the parking lot towards the shooter.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods (page 126
J-u-s-t-i-n was on the soccer field, and states that he was about 50 feet away, and saw two guys come out of the West entrance of the school. He identifies one shooter as Dylan, describes him as wearing a trench coat, a black hat, and no mask, carrying a handgun with a banana clip. He says that the other suspect wore a white shirt, black pants, boots, not hat, no mask, and more clean-cut that the other. This suspect had a shotgun, leaned against the fence and shot at people. Klebold was shooting at @#%$ and the other people on the soccer field as they ran away. He heard explosions, and saw smoke on the roof of the school.
Bryan Stepp (page 1179)
On 4/30/99, Bryan stated that he was playing soccer, and saw two guys near the West main entrance. One was wearing all black, black cargo pants, black trench coat, and a hat. The other suspect was wearing a black trench coat and a white shirt, and a hat. He saw the first suspect bend down and light fireworks or pipe bombs. When he stood up, Bryan could see he held a gun with a banana clip. He said that someone walked out of the West entrance door, and this suspect shot at this person, who then fell down. Bryan said that this suspect shot at students down the hill from him, and they all ran away except one, then the shooter shot at the student in the soccer field, who fled. When Bryan looked again, he heard explosions and saw smoke above the roof of the school. He also saw the banana-clip shooter shoot out the windows in the double doors of the West main entrance, then both shooters walked down the stairs toward the cafeteria, where they shot out a window.
Evan Vitale (page 1243)
On 4/20/99, Evan stated that he was in the Sr. parking lot, in a car that was about to leave school. He heard a "pop pop pop" and looked, and saw a kid on the top of the hill, shooting a rifle, about 30 shots. This gunman was wearing a white T-shirt, a trench coat, black pants, had dark hair and dark skin. He saw another individual in a dark trench coat, a black ball cap worn backwards, and long, blond hair, who was running up and down the stairs outside the West side of the cafeteria. As the car began pulling out, Evan noticed a third suspect. This person was stand by the wall next to the West side of the cafeteria. This suspect was holding a pump shotgun, and wore a white shirt and black pants. He was very sure this was not Dylan. Evan did not believe it possible for this suspect to be the same as the shooter on the hill, as it seemed that this would have required this person to move too far too fast.
Trent Karnes (page 911)
Trent was the driver of the car Evan Vitale was riding in. He was in the parking lot when he heard what he thought was someone roofing. It was 6 or 7 rapid gunshots. He turned and saw a person at the top of the outside stairs, holding a rifle, leaning on a fence, shooting down the hill at people. He was wearing a white dress shirt, black dress pants, and a thin black vest. Trent saw another person, about 6'2" or 6'3" tall, in a black trench coat, black pants, medium brown shoulder length hair, a black leather hat, and sunglasses. He saw this person running up and down the stairs, apparently looking at the victims between groups of shots by the first person. Trent estimated the distance at between 100 and 200 yards. He also mentions that there was a kid wearing a white T-shirt and faded blue jean shorts, standing, watching and smiling. He thinks this kid was not part of it, only that he thought it was a joke, as apparently did the other people he saw smiling as they ran.
Mindy Pollock (page 1093)
On 4/26/99, she gave this information to the FBI: She was about to get into Trent's car with Evan, where she heard firecrackers. She looked, and saw a man running up and down the stairs, and another standing at the top of the stairs shooting people. She thought is a skit. She described the running man as wearing black pants, black shirt, a black hat backwards, a black trench coat, and carrying a silver handgun, which she did not see him shoot. She described the shooter as wearing black pants, a white shirt, black suspenders, a red hat backwards, and a huge black gun.
THE CONCLUSIONS
Summary table deleted here. I'll edit in a reformatted version later.
We know Harris was wearing a white T-shirt, but did the investigators come to the correct conclusion that every sighting of a suspect in a white T-shirt was Harris? Of the 15 sightings listed above, only 7 are consistent with Harris. Even with these 7, 3 are clearly inconsistent with the official timeline. (See detailed analysis of the witnesses' accounts below.) Put another way: of the 14 people that witnessed these events, only 4 gave statements consistent with the description and activities of Eric Harris, as seen in the Sheriff's Report.
Most telling however, is that no less than 4 witnesses saw 3 suspects AT THE SAME TIME. These 4 witnesses were Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles. This is very, very strong corroboration - corroboration that was either overlooked or ignored. Two others had strong evidence of a third suspect. These two were Don Arnold and Evan Vitale.
It is certainly reasonable to assume that not every witness will see every suspect. So, for the sake of argument, lets suppose that there was a third, T-shirt wearing bomb thrower, and see how well the witnesses' statements support this. Please note we will not be counting the failure to notice a suspect as an anomaly. This could easily be accounted for by a bad angle, or by the witness focusing on the more immediate threat rather than surveying the scene carefully.
Since we know that Harris wore a white shirt as well, how can we tell the two apart? Well, Harris wore black pants, had a gun, and spent all of his time outside the school at the top of the hill, shooting people (according to the official report). The possible 3rd suspect, as reported by the 4 witnesses who saw 3 suspects at once, wore blue jeans, had no gun, and threw bombs onto the roof.
Do any of the other witnesses report a shooter that more closely matches our hypothetical bomber? Lets examine each:
Don Arnold: The description of the trench-coated shooter with a pump shotgun, shooting from the top of the hill, much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Since the suspect in the white T-shirt does not match Klebold at all, he must be a 3rd suspect. Don hears two distinct weapons, but the suspect in the white T-shirt did not have a gun, which also strongly indicates a 3rd suspect.
Pat Neville: The description of the trench-coated shooter much more closely fits Harris that Klebold. Which means the suspect in the white T-shirt must be a 3rd suspect.
Arthur Curtis: The description of this suspect in a white T-shirt fits Harris very well.
Mike Kenny: This report has little information, but Mike did notice the explosion, and since the suspect in the white T-shirt was wearing blue jeans and had no visible gun, it does give more support to the white T bomber theory.
Jason Brehm: This muddled account is mostly likely a combination of Harris and Klebold.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods: A sighting of Harris without a gun seems most likely. Who threw the bombs is unclear.
Bryan Stepp: Given the sparse details, it is most likely Harris
Evan Vitale: The 3rd suspect could possibly have been Harris. Even if it was not, this suspect is not the white T-shirt bomber as described above.
Trent Karnes: The shooting suspect in a white T-shirt is consistent with Harris. The other person mentioned seems most likely to be uninvolved
Mindy Pollock: This suspect also is consistent with Harris.
So, let's try these groupings:
Arthur Curtis, Jason Brehm, J-u-s-t-i-n Woods, Bryan Stepp, Trent Karnes, Mindy Pollock, and Evan Vitale do not report seeing this white T-shirt bomber. The person in a white T-shirt that they do see conforms well to Harris's description. If we assume that the official timeline is erroneous in not having Harris go down the stairs, then they are very consistent.
Don Arnold, Pat Neville, and Mike Kenny saw a suspect that very strongly supports the account of the bomber seen by Chris Wisher, Jake Apodaca, Jonathan Cole, and William Arapkiles.
SUMMARY:
There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber.
Switching to this theory instead of a two-shooter theory, the number of anomalous testimonies falls from 11 to 4. (Evan, Jason, Trent and Mindy all reported a shooter that may not have been Eric or Dylan).
Of the 14 witnesses, four witnesses saw him simultaneously with Eric and Dylan, and 3 other witnesses saw him with one of the two shooters.
Put in percents:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 73%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 28%
If we factor out the anomalies that do not directly relate to the white T-shirt bomber, we have:
No white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 50%
With white T-shirt bomber: Anomalous reports: 0% None. Zip.
Seven corroborating witnesses, four of whom saw 3 suspects simultaneously. Furthermore, none of the seven reports about the white T-shirt bomber contradict each other. And the theory much more closely aligns with the actual witnesses' reports than does the official report.
Could it be any plainer than that?
There was a third accomplice, the White T-shirt Bomber.
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etailed witness analysis
Chris Wisher (page 1261)
On 4/20/99, he gave a quick written statement. He saw 3 people simultaneously, 2 in black trench coats and one in a white T-shirt. Chris and his friends were about 100 yards away, and were shot at. He saw the person in the white T-shirt throw a bomb on the roof. A little later, he and his friends also saw a person with a gun hiding in the bushes in Weaver park.
Later on 4/20/99, he gave a longer statement. Chris states that he was behind the cafeteria and heardwhat he thought were fireworks. He turned and saw two kids wearing trench coats, and one kid wearing awhite T-shirt who was throwing bombs onto the school. He says he believes one of the kids is [redacted] (ie, not Eric or Dylan).
One of the trench-coated kids shot a shotgun at him, then other kid in a trench coat had an automatic rifle.
Also on 4/20/99, he talks to the media, recounting the same facts as above.
On 4/27/99, FBI agent Harris records a slightly different account. On his way to the soccer field from the cafeteria, he hears what he thinks are fireworks and turns around. He sees a tall guy, all in black, with a black trench coat, a black hat, and sunglasses. He thinks it is someone that is redacted (ie, not Dylan or Eric), who is a member of the Trench Coat Mafia. This person shoots a shotgun at people nearby 3 times, then turns and shoots 4 or 5 times at Chris and his friends, who duck. This shooter then moves towards the SW cafeteria entrance. Chris then sees a person in blue jeans and a short-sleeved white T-shirt, who throws a silvery object onto the roof, which explodes. Chris hears very rapid gunfire from within the school, while simultaneously seeing the trench-coated shooter and the T-shirted bomber.
Finally, on 10/12/99, Chris is asked again about his redacted ID. Chris says that this was his impression, that one of the gunmen was [Redacted], but that he was not sure. Chris says he is positive that it was NOT [different Redacted]. Chris is shown a photo from the cafeteria tape, and Chris states that these two guys are indeed the people he saw outside.
So - how many suspects did Chris see? In all three accounts on 4/20, the number is 3 (well, 4 if you count the gunman in the bushes in Weaver park). On 4/27, one of the gunmen has apparently has moved into the school, firing a weapon. And on 10/12, it reads like he only see two, except for the "one of the gunmen" statement -- the white T-shirted figure was never said to have a gun, so there is still room for 3.
Why didn't the FBI officer seek to clarify the numbers? Surely he would have to account for the discrepancy, but he does not.
Why didn't any of the follow-up interviews ask ANY questions about a gunman in the bushes in Weaver park?
If the suspect in the white shirt were Harris, then the person shooting at Chris would have to have been Klebold. The official story says that Klebold only fired 5 shots outside the school -- but Chris counted 7 or 8 shots.
Jake Apodaca (page 653)
On 4/20/99, he states that he saw 3 suspects, simultaneously. He was at the soccer field, heard firecrackers. He turned and saw two guys carrying shotguns, wearing black trench coats, black berets, black pants, black army boots, and black T-shirts. He had seen them at school before, but could not find them in the yearbook. A 3rd guy wearing a white T-shirt, jeans, light brown hair, that he had not seen him at school before, was seen throwing bombs onto the roof. It is not stated if the 3rd suspect had a gun or not. Jake also states that he saw a gunman with a shotgun hiding in the bushes in Weaver park.
On 4/27/99, Jake tells the FBI that he and his friends were walking from the cafeteria toward the soccer field, heard what they thought were firecrackers. They turned, and Jake saw two guys crouched down by the NW corner of the cafeteria. One was wearing a white short sleeved T-shirt, blue jeans, and had no visible weapon, the other was all in black, with a black trench coat, a black beret, and a black mask. Jake saw the guy in the white T-shirt throw two bombs onto the roof. Then he saw the guy in the black trench coat shoot at three people with a shotgun, then turned and shot 4 or 5 times at Jake and his friends, about 40 or 50 yards away, who ducked.
Again, why did the FBI agent (agent Harris) fail to clarify the numbers from Jake's previous statement? And why is there no mention of the gunman in the bushes?
Again, if the person in the white T-shirt is Harris, then Klebold has to have shot at least 7 rounds outside, not 5 as the official story claims.
But more ominously, this is the second witness who claimed to have seen 3 suspects, but in the reports filed by FBI agent Harris, it reads as two suspects.
Jonathan Cole (page 749)
Interestingly, the only report released from Jonathan Cole was the interview he gave on 6/1/99 to FBI agent Holloway. In it, he states that he had met up with Jake Apodaca and Chris Wisher outside the main West entrance.There he noticed two tall guys in black trench coats, no hats, one had on a ski mask, one had "puffy" hair. One had a white T-shirt under his coat, the other had a black or dark T-shirt. These 2 walked over to top of the hill and looked down toward the cafeteria. He then saw a third male, wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans, exit the school through the same door. This person looked over to the other two suspect, and yelled "GO!! GO!!". The two suspects pulled out guns and began shooting. Jonathan began running, looked back and saw the person in the white T-shirt throw some bombs onto the roof, which exploded. Several days later, when students were allowed back into the school to claim their belongings, he saw the white-t-shirted bomb-thrower at the school. This person is described as being 5'10", wearing black glasses, and having collar length blondish brown hair. Jonathan was shown a photo lineup, but could not identify him as one of those suspects. Jonathan was about 73' to 75' away from the gunmen, but could not identify them. Agent Holloway notes in the report that the interviews of Jake and Chris only show one trench-coated gunman.
Jonathan's parents do not allow him to be interviewed again.
First, why was this the only interview released? Almost all the other student who saw shooters had had two or three interviews by this time. I would be very surprised if Jonathan had not. Yet, they were not released.
Second, Holloway's note about the interviews of Jake and Chris not corroborating Jonathan's account of three suspects is outrageous. That is NOT what they say! Did Holloway only read Harris's report? Did Harris intentionally bury the 3rd suspect aspect of their prior statements, knowing that Holloway would only read the FBI reports?
Third, the Official Report makes mention of the "GO!! GO!!" statement, but attributes it to Harris. Yet Jonathan is the only witness to have recounted someone yelling this. Ironic that LE would give that much weight to this single aspect of his statement, yet completely reject the corroborated statement of seeing 3 suspects simultaneously.
William Arapkiles (page 660)
In the released information, there is a brief undated statement, which can safely be assumed to be given on 4/20/99. In it, he states that he saw two guys with guns and grenades. One had a black trench coat, was 6' tall, and shot at William (Billy) and his friends.
On 5/5/99, Billy states that he was at the soccer field, and heard firecrackers. He turned and saw 3 people near the West entrance. Two were wearing black trench coats, and carrying guns. The third was wearing a white T-shirt, and no visible gun. The person in the white T-shirt was pacing back and forth about 5' away from the two gunmen. He saw the gunmen shoot toward the ground and into the air. He saw them shoot one person near the top of the stair, and another at the bottom of the hill, then a third victim that was trying to run away across the parking lot. The shooter then shot at the witnesses on the
soccer field. Billy observed actions of one shooter, which seemed to him to be a jammed gun.
No other interviews have been released, if they were conducted.
Why would the investigators leave it at this?
Don Arnold (page 666)
Only one interview with Don Arnold was released, dated 5/11/99, with the FBI. In it, Don states that he was on the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned toward the school. He saw a "short, pudgy" male in a white T-shirt that was throwing bombs onto the roof. He did not see this person having a gun. Don saw another male standing at the top of the hill, shooting toward the parking lot. Don had gone shooting with his father before, and knew the sounds of gunshots. He heard two different gunshot sounds -- one was a shotgun, and the other was not. This shooter then turned and shot 5 or 6 time toward the soccer field using a shotgun. He saw that this shotgun was a pump shotgun.
Given the FBI's previous track record in Wisher's and Apodaca's interviews, I wonder what Don's earlier statements may have said.
Even granting that Don may have only seen two suspects, he still strongly indicates the presence of three participants.
Also, the official story has Eric Harris using the pump shotgun, but also as the white T-shirt bomb thrower. In this account, he clearly cannot have been both.
Pat Neville (page 1043)
On 5/6/99, gave an account much like Don Arnold's. He was by the soccer field, heard firecrackers, turned and saw two suspects. One in a black trench coat, tall, all in black, shooting people with a long gun. The other had a white T-shirt, blue jeans, no visible gun, and was throwing bombs onto the roof.
Again, we must wonder about the lack of earlier statements.
Arthur Curtis (page 765)
Arthur was also on the soccer field. He only saw 2 shooters. One was tall, with long hair, and wore a black trench, the other wore a white T-shirt. He saw the one in the black trench coat carrying a sawed-off shotgun. Arthur states that he could identify the one in the trench coat if given a picture. He saw them shoot at groups of people and at the soccer field witnesses. He reported that the one in the white T-shirt descended the stairs, fired a few shots, and went back up the stairs.
So, why wasn't he given the opportunity to make an ID? Or was he, but that report was not released?
And, if we assume that this white T-shirted shooter is Harris, we must note that this contradicts the official timeline, which never has Harris descending the stairs.
Mike Kenny (page 93
Mike was also on the soccer field when here heard a noise like firecrackers. He looked and saw two people about 100 yards away. One was in a black trench coat and black pants and was holding a TEC-9, the other was about 10 feet behind him and was wearing a white T-shirt and blue jeans. They appeared to be together. The one in the trench coat was shooting, but Mike couldn't tell if the one in the white T-shirt was shooting or not. The trench coat shooter shot at the players on the soccer field, who ducked and ran. Mike looked back, and saw an explosion on the roof. He saw other explosions on the roof. He did not see anyone throw a bomb up there, but either of the two suspects he did see could have thrown a bomb to that location.
Knowing that both Harris and Klebold wore a trench coat for at least some of the time, and having no other characteristics than a media-hyped gun description, it could quite easily have been either of them in the trench coat.
The white T-shirt and blue jeans suspect is not seen with a gun, but is present when the bombs explode on the roof.
Jason Brehm (page 71
On 5/5/99, Jason give the following information: Jason walked out the West main doors, and saw a figure in a black trench coat, leaning against a post outside the library North door. This person was a little shorter than 5'11", with a round face, and was not Eric or Harris. This person had a black hat turned backward, black boots, and one pants leg tucked into a boot. This person also has a large, full, black nylon bag with straps at his feet. Jason walked to the soccer field, heard firecrackers, and turned around. He turned, and saw the guy in the trench coat still there, with smoke rising beside him. He said this lone gunman walked down and back up the stair, shooting, then threw some bombs onto the roof, then ran back down the stairs and shot a different, louder gun, which Jason thinks was a shotgun. He thinks that was when Lance Kirkland was shot in the face. As Jason was running away, he saw a figure in a white T-shirt walking calmly from the parking lot towards the shooter.
Interesting that he got such a close look at the figure by the post, and identifies him as someone other than Eric and Dylan. Yet this merits no follow-up interviews, or photo lineups, or any interest whatsoever from the investigators.
Sure, this person saw after the "firecrackers" may not have been the same person he walked right by. But it could have. More importantly, this person may have been at least an accomplice, helping to carry in the explosives or something.
That said, the investigators probably saw this testimony as hopelessly muddled, in that Jason ascribes to one shooter all the activities that the other witnesses ascribe to two or more shooters.
But, again note the appearance of a person in a white T-shirt.
J-u-s-t-i-n Woods (page 126
J-u-s-t-i-n was on the soccer field, and states that he was about 50 feet away, and saw two guys come out of the West entrance of the school. He identifies one shooter as Dylan, describes him as wearing a trench coat, a black hat, and no mask, carrying a handgun with a banana clip. He says that the other suspect wore a white shirt, black pants, boots, not hat, no mask, and more clean-cut that the other. This suspect had a shotgun, leaned against the fence and shot at people. J-u-s-t-i-n and the other people on the soccer field were being shot at by Klebold as the ran away. He heard explosions, and saw smoke on the roof of the school.
So, while he did not indicate a third suspect, he does corroborate that bombs were thrown onto the roof, and does not indicate that Eric or Dylan did it.
Bryan Stepp 1179
On 4/30/99, Bryan stated that he was playing soccer, and saw two guys near the West main entrance. One was wearing all black, black cargo pants, black trench coat, and a hat. The other suspect was wearing a black trench coat and a white shirt, and a hat. He saw the first suspect bend down and light fireworks or pipe bombs. When he stood up, Bryan could see he held a gun with a banana clip. He said that someone walked out of the West entrance door, and this suspect shot at this person, who then fell down. Bryan said that this suspect shot at students down the hill from him, and they all ran away except one, then the shooter shot at the student in the soccer field, who fled. When Bryan looked again, he heard explosions and saw smoke above the roof of the school. He also saw the banana-clip shooter shoot out the windows in the double doors of the West main entrance, then both shooters walked down the stairs toward the cafeteria, where they shot out a window.
While there is no mention of a 3rd suspect, it is quite interesting to note that the official story does not have a casualty for a person being shot as they exit that door. Nor does it have Harris going down the stairs with Klebold. The official story also has Harris as the person shooting down the hill, and shooting out the door windows.
And, he does corroborate that bombs were thrown onto the roof, and does not indicate that it was Eric or Dylan.
Evan Vitale (page 1243)
On 4/20/99, Evan stated that he was in the Sr. parking lot, in a car that was about to leave school. He heard a "pop pop pop" and looked, and saw a kid on the top of the hill, shooting a rifle, about 30 shots. This gunman was wearing a white T-shirt, a trench coat, black pants, had dark hair and dark skin. He saw another individual in a dark trench coat, a black ball cap worn backwards, and long, blond hair, who was running up and down the stairs outside the West side of the cafeteria.
On 5/11/99, he is interviewed again. The officer notes that Evan mentions being interviewed before, but the office is unable to find that interview using the FBI's Rapid Start tracking system.
Evan gives a little more detail -- the gunman on the hill is now stated to be a white male, whose face he could not see. This shooter was resting his long gun on the fence as he shot it toward the grassy areas by the cafeteria. He was wearing a white shirt, black pants, and had dark hair or a dark hat. The other suspect, who was running up and down the stairs, was wearing black pants, a black shirt, a black trench coat, and a black ball cap, backwards. He did not see this person carrying a gun, but states that this person was Dylan Klebold. Then, as the car began pulling out, Evan noticed a third suspect. This person was stand by the wall next to the West side of the cafeteria. This suspect was holding a pump shotgun, and wore a white shirt and black pants. He was very sure this was not Dylan. Evan did not believe it possible for this suspect to be the same as the shooter on the hill, as it seemed that this would have required this person to move too far too fast.
Between 10/18/99 and 11/9/99, Evan missed 5 interview appointments.
On 11/16/99, Evan was interviewed again, because he had described a possible third shooter. Evan recounts the exact same events and details. Evan says that third shooter may have been Eric Harris, having since seen photos of him. The officer points out that Evans account leaves time for the uphill shooter to have moved down hill. Evan agrees that this could be possible. The investigator, apparently satisfied with Evan's answers, ends the interview.
So, could that third, shotgun-wielding shooter have been Harris? Conceivably, but the official timeline does not place Harris in that location -- then, or at other time. So, either it WAS a 3rd shooter, or the timeline is wrong. Or BOTH! How, exactly, does this make for a satisfactory conclusion for the investigator?
Trent Karnes (page 911)
Trent was the driver of the car Evan Vitale was riding in.
On 4/21/99, he was in the parking lot when he heard what he thought was someone roofing. It was 6 or 7 rapid gunshots. He turned and saw a person at the top of the outside stairs, holding a rifle, leaning on afence, shooting down the hill at people. He was wearing a white dress shirt, black dress pants, and a thin black vest. Trent saw another person, in a black trench coat, black pants, long hair, and sunglasses. He saw this person running up and down the stairs, apparently looking at the victims between groups of shots by the first person. Trent estimated the distance at between 100 and 200 yards.
On 4/27/99, he gave another statement. He described the second figure as above, adding that he was about 6'2" or 6'3", his hair was medium brown and shoulder length, he was wearing a black leather hat, and possibly a white shirt. Trent says he does not believe this was one of the suspects shown on television, and that he had seen this suspect at school before, but not this year. He now estimates his distance as about 80 yards.
On 5/6/99, he gives another statement. He further describes the black leather hat as "either an English style leather cap with the kind of short visor that snaps or a ball cap. He did not see this suspect holding a gun. He does mention that the shooter was the shorter of the two. And, he now mentions that there was a kid wearing a white T-shirt and faded blue jean shorts, standing, watching and smiling. He thinks this kid was not part of it, only that he thought it was a joke, as apparently did the other people he saw smiling as they ran. Trent is shown a photo lineup, and he picks "#4" as possibly the taller guy with the hat and sunglasses.
Okay, Trent's description of the shooter with the thin vest is a very accurate description of Eric Harris's clothes. Very few other witnesses describe him in a white shirt, black pants, with a black vest. But is the second shooter Dylan Klebold? While he mentions a ball cap, it seems he really thinks it was a different type of leather cap. And, this person does not appear to have a gun.
More importantly, the photo lineup suspect "#4" is not named -- but everywhere else that a witness names Eric or Dylan, the officer notes that in the report. This can only mean that he ID'ed someone other than Dylan and Eric.
He mentions a guy on a white T-shirt and blue jeans, but shorts, not long pants, and he does not see him, or anyone else, throw any bombs. Is this the same person? It's hard to tell, but it does seem congruent.
Mindy Pollock (page 1093)
On 4/26/99, she gave this information to the FBI: She was about to get into Trent's car with Evan, whereshe heard firecrackers. She looked, and saw a man running up and down the stairs, and another standing at the top of the stairs shooting people. She thought is a skit. She described the running man as wearing black pants, black shirt, a black hat backwards, a black trench coat, and carrying a silver handgun, which she did not see him shoot. She described the shooter as wearing black pants, a white shirt, black suspenders, a hat, and a huge black gun.
On 5/4/99, she names gives additional information. For the running gunman, she identifies him, but the name is redacted. She states here certainty as an 8-9 on a scale of 10, and mentions knowing him from last year but not seeing him since. She describes the trench coat as black, mid-shin length, made of cloth, with no patches. The hat was a black baseball cap, backwards. She describes his face as long, with a pointed nose, looked like "a giant rat", and had a light complexion and a moustache. He wore black boots. She describes the other gunman as wearing looser black pants and black boots, a white dress-type shirt with front buttons, a red hat on backwards, and a long black gun.
On 10/8/99, she is interviewed regarding the ID of the gunman as "Redacted". The officer shows her more current photos of Dylan Klebold, and she agrees that this is who she saw, and that the handgun matches Klebold's weapon as well.
It seems rather odd that she can go from near-certainty that it was a "Redacted" to sure that it was Klebold. The description is very detailed, and matches Klebold except for the mustache, and perhaps the subjective facial descriptions. But the description of a silver handgun does not come very close to either the dark TEC-9 or the sawed-off shotgun that Klebold carried. Her description of the shooter that has tobe Harris is fairly accurate too, if you count the suspenders as a near miss on the black vest. The red hat is an odd note, though.
-----------
Here are some other references to a suspect in a white t-shirt and/or blue jeans:
Loni Brown(724)
"Loni said that she saw a guy running up the hill during the shooting, and he was wearing a white t-shirt that possible had a design on the back, and maybe blue jeans. She said he had dark blonde/light brown hair with light streaks, cut short." (If she was right about the blue jeans, this definitely could not have been Harris, though she was unsure if he was one of the suspects.)
Tony Doty(777)
"He then saw a male in a white t-shirt and blue jeans holding a handgun walk from a corner near the cafeteria. ...he fired the handgun at him, and he heard the bullet 'whiz' by his head." Not Harris.
Autumn Hettinger( )
Before the attack "saw Klebold and Harris with a third party wearing a white t-shirt, talking. This individual stayed in the lot down between the cars during the incident.
Stefanie Haney(829)
Sees H&K and one other entering south, main cafeteria entrance at 11:10-11:15am. "Haney also described a third male walking with Harris and Klebold. The white male looked older than a high school student and she did not recognize him from any of the four years she has attended CHS. The unknown male was about the same height as Harris, his hair was dark in a kind of bowl cut and shaved on the sides. He was wearing a white t-shirt or v-necked shirt... with its sleeves rooled up one or twice."
Jessica Guertz(3134)
"Jessica said she saw two guys dressed in trenchcoats, and a guy in a white t-shirt possibly with them standing near the cement stairs. ...She thought it was strange that the three were standing so calmly, when everybody else was so panicked. The adult in the white shirt was tall and thin."(6')
Kent Friesen, teacher(5873)
Was in restroom, then obesrved two suspects walking in a sourthern direction who has just exited the library. ID'ed Klebold("he is certain"); shorter one wearing 'pale colored clothes"--white t-shirt, light blue pants, 5'9". H&K had been to his house. (The implication is that this other shooter defintely wasn't Harris)
Joey Marcotte(10010)
Describes white male, 5'8"-6'0" tall, real skinny, blue ball cap, short blond hair, white t-shirt with blood on it, ammo vest, baggy blue jeans.
Others:
Heidi Johnson(443)
In the library, said shooter had tan, black, and white cami pants and brownish blond hair, very short, like a crew cut. (The pants are an oddity, but the haircut reminds one of 'dark hair with blond spikes and shaved sides')
Al Martin(991)
Sees gunman come out of west doors, suspect wearing white t-shirt under black long sleeve shirt with light blue pants. 5'7"-5'8", 15-17, thin.
Michael Bogacz(5596)
"...he added that as he existed the building he saw a guy near the baseball field to the west wearing a white t-shirt carrying something in his hand, but he couldn't make out what it was. The strange thing to Michael was that the subject was not too concerned about getting anywhere very fast."
Sally Hocker(7511)
Onlooker in Clement Park, hears big explosion from CHS at 11:30am. At 11:31, noticed male, 17-18, white t-shirt, blue jeans, walking down the hill from the soccer field, away from the school. He was very calm, walking in a nonchalant manner. "She then observed two, slightly older males(19+) walking northbound on a path leading out of a housing-area greenbelt." They were wearing all black with short black coats. The three met and talked briefly. "According to Hocker, the meeting appeared to be prearranged and very matter-of-fact. ... the three parties were very calm, showing no emotion."
JC-001-012984
Lisa(Armstrong) reported to Det. Demmel that on Tues. the 20th at about 7:15a.m. in the morning that she was driving by Columbine High School on Pierce St. when she observed a young man 19 to 20 years old, 6' -6'2" who was heavy and overweight with blue eyes, short brown hair--a buzz cut--and no hat. The party was wearing a trench coat, light(blue?) jeans, didn't look like a student and really stood out. Lisa observed the party as he walked west across Pierce St. with other students around him but she said he seemed to be in a daze and by himself.
[Comment: This sounds a lot like the white t-shirted bomber]
Labels: Columbine
posted by starviego at
11:04 PM
0 Comments
Who had Foreknowledge?
Who had Foreknowledge?
A sticky question, to be sure. Foreknowledge of what, exactly? That 'something big' was going to happen, that the suspects were 'planning something'? That a big bad senior prank was brewing, involving an attack with paintball guns and even a pipe bomb or two? Or that a heavily-armed group of TCMers would assault the school with live ammo, gunning down as many people as they could?
However you define it, some people(not in the active team of assailants) had an inkling or more than an inkling about what was going to happen on 4-20:
--The five other TCMers mentioned by Pat McDuffee, IF he is correct(see my post "McDuffee's Version"):
Ault
Beachum
Phillips
Dutro
"Eric"(Jackson?)
MCDuffee himself(by implication)
--The Splatter Punks:
Brunetti
Akard
Nalty
They told Clement Park on-looker Cork Chicota that they "knew something bad was going to happen."(7462)
"Akard was allegedly present outside the school prior to the shooting"(17327)
--Robyn Andersen
"...he said he could not see any way that Robyn Andersen could not have known what was going on."(7001-Tyler Ben Pearce)
--Alejandra Marsh
Brooks Skinner was "approached by a girl who said 'they planned to do it and she knew about it for a year.' "(probably Marsh)(2178 )
J u s t i n and Jerry Alber heard Alex Marsh saying that they had been planning it since December. They both got the impression that she knew it was going to happen.(2293 and 7428 )
While running away, Heidi Wildona said she was helped over a wall by a girl who said the suspects told her about the shooting.(probably Marsh, as she was in the area)(4726)
--Courtney Van Dell
Brandi Malonson and Jonathan Fries heard Courtney say something big was going to happen at lunch.(3634, 3049 and 4573)
--Melissa Sowder
Nicole Ray says Sowder had two weeks foreknowledge.(4144)
Kristin Griffith says Melissa told her friend Danny Romero that she two weeks foreknowledge.(6457)
--Pauline Colby
John Reffel's friend "was told by Pauline Colby that the TCM were gonna get back at everyone real soon."(7056)
Tina Bernacchi says Colby took off ten minutes before the shooting.(2455)
--Lydie Perry
Jo-Lee Gallegos "heard Lydie say that a friend had called her the night before and told her to stay away from the school on the 20th because something big was going to happen."(5424)
--Rebecca Heines
TCM associate who wore a black scarf to school on 4-20, not even taking it off for PE. Crystal Bragazzi says "she had never seen Heines wear a black scarf like that before."(5225)
--Zach Heckler
Sarah Slater says Heckler knew H&K had the day planned, but didn't think they would carry it out.(4435)
--the TCM generally
Numerous wintesses noted the TCM were not around the school before the shooting broke out. Typical is Jennifer Harmon who said "Not one of 'em showed up to nothing. Not one of 'em."(6526) Also, "...she had heard through other students that 4-20 was important and something big was going to happen."(9622)
Ryan Shwayder said he saw a TCMer carrying a duffel bag that morning, and was told "not to be in school that afternoon."(7129)
Brittany Gillette said that "during her second period jewelry class, she and James Helms were talking about senior prank day and how unpleasant it would be. Another student heard them discussing this, and he said 'that is nothing to what is going to happen.' "(3138 )
Alexis Wolfe was in Clement Park and heard a girl say "I was told not to come to school because something big was going to happen."(6037)
---------------other
--Dick Strange, Clement Park Worker, hears gunfire coming from school. Turns to what he describes as an "undercover officer" standing near him and tells him he'd better get to the school. Comment: since Strange notices this 'undercover'(FBI?) man almost at the same time he sees and hears shooting, this guy must have had foreknowledge. Also says he notices black clad students whip out guns and start firing at the front of the school, not the back. (13639) (16437)
--Jennifer Falbo, exCHS TCM, "knows the shoooters and knew that the shooting was going to happen."(17475)
--Ryan Shaddox told another student "that something was about to occur, he knew about shooting and bomb at school."(8846, 17487)
--Geoffrey Chevalier, alt-ed school student, told principle on 4-19 that there will be a "lot of funerals tomorrow."(18192)
--Michael Zarate(Chatfield student?) overhears conversation about "guns in the basement" needed for "a shootout at Columbine" in local funplex on 4-15-99 Not H or K. Person was wearing elaborate makeup. (Redacted) named.(18501)
--Report from St. Clair City, Missouri. A 15yr old newly arrived from Fountain, CO made threats against his new school and knew about planned school shooting at a Colorado school two weeks before 4-20. Disposition of Lead? He was 'hospitalized for evaluation'.(18553)
--Krista Hanley "further told (Josh) Barnes that she spoke to Harris on 4-19-99 and Harris told her what he was planning for tomorrow."(19592)
--"T.J" Anthony Mark Pagliotte, Jr "Told his parents and stayed home from school the day of the shooting."(20132) He denies foreknowledge in the 11k(6978 ).
--Jason Scott "T.J." Valentine(7302) "Told their(sic) parents and stayed home from school the day of the shooting."(20135)
--Nate Dykeman "knew they were going to do something but didn't know they were going to do what they did."((20313)
--Melissa Chavez "had prior knowledge of incident," and "said at least six others are involved in planning attack."(20953)
--Linda Worten, Clement Park employee(24633) Dick Strange, another park employee, "told(IOs) co-worker Linda Worten had info about shooting before it happened."
--To this list we should add the person(s) who altered the date on all the prom posters to read '4-20'(2597), plus the person who made up the thought of the day and its sinister connotation on RNN plus the people who did the morning announcement, with its reference to Hitler's birthday(unless you believe in incredible coincidences), also the person who put up signs in the cafeteria way back in January that said "April 19?....."(2720).
Lauren Waterbury's statement is also relevant. "Lauren stated while at a LaCrosse meeting with Chatfield students she noticed backpacks with "CHS 4-20", "CHS 13nth Day". and "Chatfield TCM".
Closley related to foreknowledge is forewarning. Take the school administration. Why was Principle Frank DeAngelis running up and down the interior cafeteria stairs before the shooting broke out? He had heard of a group of boys who talked of detonating something on 4-20.(5671) And rumor had it that he was warned.(3894)
Why did Mr. Mosier, science teacher, tell his students that they had been expecting a fire drill?(1864) Was a bomb found in a trash can on 4-19?(2016) Were bomb threats phoned into the school on the morning of 4-20?(3469 and 4630)
Did the cops have a line into the TCM?
Jennifer Harmon(6550 saw Joe Stair on TV: "...he just said that they knew that ...all the police knew that they were doing bombs,....pipe bombs......There's a police officer that knew that they were doing it....but he didn't.....(stop them?)"
If so, then maybe this unknown policeman also knew about their planned attack.
--Angela Nelson(3895) heard a rumor that the principal was warned.
--Sarah Slater(4435) saw a graphic representation on RNN in 1998 of the school being blown up.
--Tiffany Burk(6203)said "It was rumored throughout the school that a video showing the destruction of the school was to be shown over the RNN network...... She thought that the video showing was halted (by the) school administration."
Foreknowledge of a different sort:
Steven Sumida(7229) didn't attent school on 4-20, although he wasn't sick or had an excused absense. Why? Because
"Christ told him not to go to school that day."
-FBI file, page 6
A 4-21-99 report refers to an online chat by an unknown white female with two unkown individuals on the "Bob Enyart Live" chatroom conducted at 10pm on 4-19. (Redacted screen name) made statements to the effect that something bad was going to happen in Colorado or North Carolina on April 20, 1999. (Redacted) further made references to the holocaust, Adolph Hitler's birthday and a fire.
-FBI file, page 79
An unknown passenger on a Minnesota-bound train on 4-15-99 notices an unknown male in the smoking car who is wearing a trenchcoat and who spoke German on occassion. She heard him say to no one in particular "Something big is going to happen."
-Michael Johnson(EP 23-20)
"Johnson's mother was told by Georgine Payne that on 4-20, during the incident, she was at King Soopers and observed several female students on a pay telephone and overheard one of them say that they hoped that they did not wreck their plans since they had been working on it for so long."
Other Rumors:
Lauren Beyer(2467): Heard that a TCM member warned Rachel Scott to stay away from school on 4-20.
Carolyn Manning(3502): Heard from her brother that people at Bear Creek High knew this was going to happen.
Sarah Roasberry(4210): Heard rumor that seniors might be shooting paint balls at other students as it was senior prank day.
----------------------
--The School District
-Jeni LaPlante(Time.com for 4-21-99)
"What I just heard on the news is that two weeks ago they all went to a special training session on crisis management."
-Daryll Strahl(Jen's mother)
"I think the school district has done an awesome job. When confronted with this crisis, their teacher knew what to do. Their crisis training that they just had enabled them to save a bunch of kids' lives yesterday.
Comment: I haven't heard too much about this 'crisis training' on the part of CHS. Are they deliberately trying to downplay this as it would lead to more questions: 1) was it just good fortune that the teachers had just had this training?--yet another Columbine coincidence? 2) what was the exact nature of this training? Was it anything like the following, descibed by the Organization of School Psychologists:
"Several school systems have enacted elaborate and very realistic crisis drills where local police storm schools and disarm students who are armed with fake weapons and dressed in camoflage. Many of these drills have involved simulated blood and firing of weapons loaded with blanks." ?
see www.nasponline.org/public...afety.html
Were memories of a prior 'crisis' drill what Nathan Epling(795) was referring to when he said:
"He first thought it was some kind of paint ball incident related to some kind of an evacuation exercise."
======new
Jason Baer(1759) There was this interesting statement that I recently discovered:
"When I first started working at the Pretzel Maker, I thought Melissa had some problems she seemed slow and she was weird. She hung out with some guys in trench coats that don't go to our school. She talked to Shannon(?) about knowing that Eric and Dylan were planning something. She was supposedly trying to pick up on a girl at work(Abigail(?)) and started talking about that. Abigail got scared, went home and told her mom. Her mom told the cops about it. The day that Melissa quit, she found out the everyone knew what she told Abigail and she ran out. She had supposedly been with them when they wrote in the journal with all of their friends and saw blueprints for a building. Melissa had said that the plan was for Eric and Dylan to die because they wanted to. She said that there were supposed to be about 4 others who will go in and do some shooting and leave before cops got there, but she said it afterwards so it might not be true."
-------------------
Nancy Lindsay(979)
"Nancy explained that on 4-20-99, she ...proceeded over to Johnson Lake, which just to the west of Clement Park. ... I ask Nancy if she could recall what time she arrived at Johnson Lake. She told me that it was no later than 11:00am. Nancy started walking around the lake telling me that she had a headset radio on and she was listening to KHOW radio station and it was 11:15am when the radio station reported that there were two gunmen on the roof at Columbine High School with grenades. Nancy told me that she had just started up the walk path, which just to the west of Columbine Hill where she stopped in amazement over the news report. After stopping, she turned her radio off and told me that she heard the sound of three gunshots coming in the direction of Columbine High School. ...
[Note: Numerous eyewitnesses testified to the presense of a gunman on the roof very early in the attack. Also, officially speaking, the first shots were fired at 11:17, though people close the gunman on the western side fo the school, where the shooting began, give a time of about 11:15 when it started. By most accounts the first media reports of an incident at Columbine were made at no earlier than 11:30am; thus this statement, if true, is definitely indicative of foreknowledge by elements in the media.]
------------------
13013
Notes from Meg Beck, manager of Ascot Theatre, Littleton to IOs:
"4/17 I went to Celebrity Vintage Costume shop at 1866 S Broadway to rent a costume. Heard the owner, Robert Lecher, talking to a couple different customers at different time, each time asking them if they ever get on the Internet. I heard him tell one of them to watch TV next week, that there was something really big going to happen, apocalyptic, etc. ...."
-------------------
14230
Alameda HS student
I received anonymous information from students also from administrators that (Redacted) had prior knowledge of the Columbine "shooting." (Redacted) allegedly made the comment this past weekend that "something big is going to happen." I spoke with (Redacted). He denied making such a statement.
------------------
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/evil3/3.html
Katherine Ramsland
The day before their rampage, they sent an email to the local police department declaring their plan of revenge. They blamed parents and teachers for turning their children into intolerant sheep and announced their own suicide.
-------------------------------------
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/COUNTY_TEXT.htm
April 20, 1999, started promisingly in Jefferson County. Early that morning, community leaders had gathered at the fairgrounds for the [b]Good News Breakfast[/b], which is held each year in honor of good works being performed throughout the county.
At one table, Jefferson County Administrator Ron Holliday talked to Sheriff John P. Stone about their meeting scheduled in the afternoon to discuss [b]emergency management issues[/b]. Nearby sat two of the county commissioners, representatives from the school district and other community leaders. The event gave them a chance to celebrate positive happenings and programs in the county.
---------------------------------
More CRISIS DRILLS, the day before this time??
I was doing some research when I came across this article from long ago, though I had never seen it:
http://www.thedailycamera.com/shooting/21crisistalks.html
More than 100 school administrators, including a handful from Littleton, sat through a state workshop Monday[4-19-99], which was prophetically called "Crisis Response Prepare for the Unthinkable: It Could Happen to You."
The main presenters: the Jefferson County school response team.
"Jeffco was very organized, outstanding," said coordinator Janice A. Hartmangruber. "When I heard (the shooting) was Columbine, I thought, 'Well, they have a good response team.' "
Hartmangruber said she also felt "like I was dying inside" when she first heard about the Columbine High School shootings.
The news came immediately after saying goodbye to the keynote speaker Karen McCuistian from Paducah, Ky., where a student opened fire at a high school prayer meeting, killing three girls. McCuistian was flying out of Denver International Airport to another conference on violence in the schools.
Hartmangruber said that at first she could not believe the Littleton incident was happening a day after her emergency preparation class. "It was too eerie," she said of the coincidence.*
Hartmangruber, deputy executive director of Colorado Association of School Executives, set up Monday's annual workshop to deal with issues that appeal to school districts throughout the state. The program was co-sponsored by the Colorado Association of Secondary School Administrators.
"We wanted people to know how to handle a crisis before it happened," Hartmangruber said. "We didn't want districts to sit back and wonder what to do. What people heard is the importance of having a plan in effect, of being coordinated, of having ways to keep the lines open so that the hospital, the police, the parents can get there."
Article dated April 21, 1999
*so many kooky Columbine coincidences in this case!
-------------------------------
4-22-99 Atlanta Constitution:
"Just a week before the massacre of Columbine High School the staff took part in a crisis-handling session prompted by last years string of school shootings around the country..... the staff members at the five-hour seminar discussed escape routes in a shooting attack, how to deal with wounded students and how to notify relatives in an emergency." ]
--------------------------
http://signofthetimes.yuku.com/topic/408/t/Bill-Zabel-s-Columbine.html
Bill Zabel, Columbine researcher
--On Monday, 4-12-99, the week before, the school had a mock shooting and a lock down.
--------------
Video: "An American Tragedy--The Columbine Massacre"
--One week before 4-20, Mesa Ridge High School, in neighboring El Paso County, had a drill which included police officers pointing guns at students in the school.
A sticky question, to be sure. Foreknowledge of what, exactly? That 'something big' was going to happen, that the suspects were 'planning something'? That a big bad senior prank was brewing, involving an attack with paintball guns and even a pipe bomb or two? Or that a heavily-armed group of TCMers would assault the school with live ammo, gunning down as many people as they could?
However you define it, some people(not in the active team of assailants) had an inkling or more than an inkling about what was going to happen on 4-20:
--The five other TCMers mentioned by Pat McDuffee, IF he is correct(see my post "McDuffee's Version"):
Ault
Beachum
Phillips
Dutro
"Eric"(Jackson?)
MCDuffee himself(by implication)
--The Splatter Punks:
Brunetti
Akard
Nalty
They told Clement Park on-looker Cork Chicota that they "knew something bad was going to happen."(7462)
"Akard was allegedly present outside the school prior to the shooting"(17327)
--Robyn Andersen
"...he said he could not see any way that Robyn Andersen could not have known what was going on."(7001-Tyler Ben Pearce)
--Alejandra Marsh
Brooks Skinner was "approached by a girl who said 'they planned to do it and she knew about it for a year.' "(probably Marsh)(2178 )
J u s t i n and Jerry Alber heard Alex Marsh saying that they had been planning it since December. They both got the impression that she knew it was going to happen.(2293 and 7428 )
While running away, Heidi Wildona said she was helped over a wall by a girl who said the suspects told her about the shooting.(probably Marsh, as she was in the area)(4726)
--Courtney Van Dell
Brandi Malonson and Jonathan Fries heard Courtney say something big was going to happen at lunch.(3634, 3049 and 4573)
--Melissa Sowder
Nicole Ray says Sowder had two weeks foreknowledge.(4144)
Kristin Griffith says Melissa told her friend Danny Romero that she two weeks foreknowledge.(6457)
--Pauline Colby
John Reffel's friend "was told by Pauline Colby that the TCM were gonna get back at everyone real soon."(7056)
Tina Bernacchi says Colby took off ten minutes before the shooting.(2455)
--Lydie Perry
Jo-Lee Gallegos "heard Lydie say that a friend had called her the night before and told her to stay away from the school on the 20th because something big was going to happen."(5424)
--Rebecca Heines
TCM associate who wore a black scarf to school on 4-20, not even taking it off for PE. Crystal Bragazzi says "she had never seen Heines wear a black scarf like that before."(5225)
--Zach Heckler
Sarah Slater says Heckler knew H&K had the day planned, but didn't think they would carry it out.(4435)
--the TCM generally
Numerous wintesses noted the TCM were not around the school before the shooting broke out. Typical is Jennifer Harmon who said "Not one of 'em showed up to nothing. Not one of 'em."(6526) Also, "...she had heard through other students that 4-20 was important and something big was going to happen."(9622)
Ryan Shwayder said he saw a TCMer carrying a duffel bag that morning, and was told "not to be in school that afternoon."(7129)
Brittany Gillette said that "during her second period jewelry class, she and James Helms were talking about senior prank day and how unpleasant it would be. Another student heard them discussing this, and he said 'that is nothing to what is going to happen.' "(3138 )
Alexis Wolfe was in Clement Park and heard a girl say "I was told not to come to school because something big was going to happen."(6037)
---------------other
--Dick Strange, Clement Park Worker, hears gunfire coming from school. Turns to what he describes as an "undercover officer" standing near him and tells him he'd better get to the school. Comment: since Strange notices this 'undercover'(FBI?) man almost at the same time he sees and hears shooting, this guy must have had foreknowledge. Also says he notices black clad students whip out guns and start firing at the front of the school, not the back. (13639) (16437)
--Jennifer Falbo, exCHS TCM, "knows the shoooters and knew that the shooting was going to happen."(17475)
--Ryan Shaddox told another student "that something was about to occur, he knew about shooting and bomb at school."(8846, 17487)
--Geoffrey Chevalier, alt-ed school student, told principle on 4-19 that there will be a "lot of funerals tomorrow."(18192)
--Michael Zarate(Chatfield student?) overhears conversation about "guns in the basement" needed for "a shootout at Columbine" in local funplex on 4-15-99 Not H or K. Person was wearing elaborate makeup. (Redacted) named.(18501)
--Report from St. Clair City, Missouri. A 15yr old newly arrived from Fountain, CO made threats against his new school and knew about planned school shooting at a Colorado school two weeks before 4-20. Disposition of Lead? He was 'hospitalized for evaluation'.(18553)
--Krista Hanley "further told (Josh) Barnes that she spoke to Harris on 4-19-99 and Harris told her what he was planning for tomorrow."(19592)
--"T.J" Anthony Mark Pagliotte, Jr "Told his parents and stayed home from school the day of the shooting."(20132) He denies foreknowledge in the 11k(6978 ).
--Jason Scott "T.J." Valentine(7302) "Told their(sic) parents and stayed home from school the day of the shooting."(20135)
--Nate Dykeman "knew they were going to do something but didn't know they were going to do what they did."((20313)
--Melissa Chavez "had prior knowledge of incident," and "said at least six others are involved in planning attack."(20953)
--Linda Worten, Clement Park employee(24633) Dick Strange, another park employee, "told(IOs) co-worker Linda Worten had info about shooting before it happened."
--To this list we should add the person(s) who altered the date on all the prom posters to read '4-20'(2597), plus the person who made up the thought of the day and its sinister connotation on RNN plus the people who did the morning announcement, with its reference to Hitler's birthday(unless you believe in incredible coincidences), also the person who put up signs in the cafeteria way back in January that said "April 19?....."(2720).
Lauren Waterbury's statement is also relevant. "Lauren stated while at a LaCrosse meeting with Chatfield students she noticed backpacks with "CHS 4-20", "CHS 13nth Day". and "Chatfield TCM".
Closley related to foreknowledge is forewarning. Take the school administration. Why was Principle Frank DeAngelis running up and down the interior cafeteria stairs before the shooting broke out? He had heard of a group of boys who talked of detonating something on 4-20.(5671) And rumor had it that he was warned.(3894)
Why did Mr. Mosier, science teacher, tell his students that they had been expecting a fire drill?(1864) Was a bomb found in a trash can on 4-19?(2016) Were bomb threats phoned into the school on the morning of 4-20?(3469 and 4630)
Did the cops have a line into the TCM?
Jennifer Harmon(6550 saw Joe Stair on TV: "...he just said that they knew that ...all the police knew that they were doing bombs,....pipe bombs......There's a police officer that knew that they were doing it....but he didn't.....(stop them?)"
If so, then maybe this unknown policeman also knew about their planned attack.
--Angela Nelson(3895) heard a rumor that the principal was warned.
--Sarah Slater(4435) saw a graphic representation on RNN in 1998 of the school being blown up.
--Tiffany Burk(6203)said "It was rumored throughout the school that a video showing the destruction of the school was to be shown over the RNN network...... She thought that the video showing was halted (by the) school administration."
Foreknowledge of a different sort:
Steven Sumida(7229) didn't attent school on 4-20, although he wasn't sick or had an excused absense. Why? Because
"Christ told him not to go to school that day."
-FBI file, page 6
A 4-21-99 report refers to an online chat by an unknown white female with two unkown individuals on the "Bob Enyart Live" chatroom conducted at 10pm on 4-19. (Redacted screen name) made statements to the effect that something bad was going to happen in Colorado or North Carolina on April 20, 1999. (Redacted) further made references to the holocaust, Adolph Hitler's birthday and a fire.
-FBI file, page 79
An unknown passenger on a Minnesota-bound train on 4-15-99 notices an unknown male in the smoking car who is wearing a trenchcoat and who spoke German on occassion. She heard him say to no one in particular "Something big is going to happen."
-Michael Johnson(EP 23-20)
"Johnson's mother was told by Georgine Payne that on 4-20, during the incident, she was at King Soopers and observed several female students on a pay telephone and overheard one of them say that they hoped that they did not wreck their plans since they had been working on it for so long."
Other Rumors:
Lauren Beyer(2467): Heard that a TCM member warned Rachel Scott to stay away from school on 4-20.
Carolyn Manning(3502): Heard from her brother that people at Bear Creek High knew this was going to happen.
Sarah Roasberry(4210): Heard rumor that seniors might be shooting paint balls at other students as it was senior prank day.
----------------------
--The School District
-Jeni LaPlante(Time.com for 4-21-99)
"What I just heard on the news is that two weeks ago they all went to a special training session on crisis management."
-Daryll Strahl(Jen's mother)
"I think the school district has done an awesome job. When confronted with this crisis, their teacher knew what to do. Their crisis training that they just had enabled them to save a bunch of kids' lives yesterday.
Comment: I haven't heard too much about this 'crisis training' on the part of CHS. Are they deliberately trying to downplay this as it would lead to more questions: 1) was it just good fortune that the teachers had just had this training?--yet another Columbine coincidence? 2) what was the exact nature of this training? Was it anything like the following, descibed by the Organization of School Psychologists:
"Several school systems have enacted elaborate and very realistic crisis drills where local police storm schools and disarm students who are armed with fake weapons and dressed in camoflage. Many of these drills have involved simulated blood and firing of weapons loaded with blanks." ?
see www.nasponline.org/public...afety.html
Were memories of a prior 'crisis' drill what Nathan Epling(795) was referring to when he said:
"He first thought it was some kind of paint ball incident related to some kind of an evacuation exercise."
======new
Jason Baer(1759) There was this interesting statement that I recently discovered:
"When I first started working at the Pretzel Maker, I thought Melissa had some problems she seemed slow and she was weird. She hung out with some guys in trench coats that don't go to our school. She talked to Shannon(?) about knowing that Eric and Dylan were planning something. She was supposedly trying to pick up on a girl at work(Abigail(?)) and started talking about that. Abigail got scared, went home and told her mom. Her mom told the cops about it. The day that Melissa quit, she found out the everyone knew what she told Abigail and she ran out. She had supposedly been with them when they wrote in the journal with all of their friends and saw blueprints for a building. Melissa had said that the plan was for Eric and Dylan to die because they wanted to. She said that there were supposed to be about 4 others who will go in and do some shooting and leave before cops got there, but she said it afterwards so it might not be true."
-------------------
Nancy Lindsay(979)
"Nancy explained that on 4-20-99, she ...proceeded over to Johnson Lake, which just to the west of Clement Park. ... I ask Nancy if she could recall what time she arrived at Johnson Lake. She told me that it was no later than 11:00am. Nancy started walking around the lake telling me that she had a headset radio on and she was listening to KHOW radio station and it was 11:15am when the radio station reported that there were two gunmen on the roof at Columbine High School with grenades. Nancy told me that she had just started up the walk path, which just to the west of Columbine Hill where she stopped in amazement over the news report. After stopping, she turned her radio off and told me that she heard the sound of three gunshots coming in the direction of Columbine High School. ...
[Note: Numerous eyewitnesses testified to the presense of a gunman on the roof very early in the attack. Also, officially speaking, the first shots were fired at 11:17, though people close the gunman on the western side fo the school, where the shooting began, give a time of about 11:15 when it started. By most accounts the first media reports of an incident at Columbine were made at no earlier than 11:30am; thus this statement, if true, is definitely indicative of foreknowledge by elements in the media.]
------------------
13013
Notes from Meg Beck, manager of Ascot Theatre, Littleton to IOs:
"4/17 I went to Celebrity Vintage Costume shop at 1866 S Broadway to rent a costume. Heard the owner, Robert Lecher, talking to a couple different customers at different time, each time asking them if they ever get on the Internet. I heard him tell one of them to watch TV next week, that there was something really big going to happen, apocalyptic, etc. ...."
-------------------
14230
Alameda HS student
I received anonymous information from students also from administrators that (Redacted) had prior knowledge of the Columbine "shooting." (Redacted) allegedly made the comment this past weekend that "something big is going to happen." I spoke with (Redacted). He denied making such a statement.
------------------
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/evil3/3.html
Katherine Ramsland
The day before their rampage, they sent an email to the local police department declaring their plan of revenge. They blamed parents and teachers for turning their children into intolerant sheep and announced their own suicide.
-------------------------------------
http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/columbine.cd/Pages/COUNTY_TEXT.htm
April 20, 1999, started promisingly in Jefferson County. Early that morning, community leaders had gathered at the fairgrounds for the [b]Good News Breakfast[/b], which is held each year in honor of good works being performed throughout the county.
At one table, Jefferson County Administrator Ron Holliday talked to Sheriff John P. Stone about their meeting scheduled in the afternoon to discuss [b]emergency management issues[/b]. Nearby sat two of the county commissioners, representatives from the school district and other community leaders. The event gave them a chance to celebrate positive happenings and programs in the county.
---------------------------------
More CRISIS DRILLS, the day before this time??
I was doing some research when I came across this article from long ago, though I had never seen it:
http://www.thedailycamera.com/shooting/21crisistalks.html
More than 100 school administrators, including a handful from Littleton, sat through a state workshop Monday[4-19-99], which was prophetically called "Crisis Response Prepare for the Unthinkable: It Could Happen to You."
The main presenters: the Jefferson County school response team.
"Jeffco was very organized, outstanding," said coordinator Janice A. Hartmangruber. "When I heard (the shooting) was Columbine, I thought, 'Well, they have a good response team.' "
Hartmangruber said she also felt "like I was dying inside" when she first heard about the Columbine High School shootings.
The news came immediately after saying goodbye to the keynote speaker Karen McCuistian from Paducah, Ky., where a student opened fire at a high school prayer meeting, killing three girls. McCuistian was flying out of Denver International Airport to another conference on violence in the schools.
Hartmangruber said that at first she could not believe the Littleton incident was happening a day after her emergency preparation class. "It was too eerie," she said of the coincidence.*
Hartmangruber, deputy executive director of Colorado Association of School Executives, set up Monday's annual workshop to deal with issues that appeal to school districts throughout the state. The program was co-sponsored by the Colorado Association of Secondary School Administrators.
"We wanted people to know how to handle a crisis before it happened," Hartmangruber said. "We didn't want districts to sit back and wonder what to do. What people heard is the importance of having a plan in effect, of being coordinated, of having ways to keep the lines open so that the hospital, the police, the parents can get there."
Article dated April 21, 1999
*so many kooky Columbine coincidences in this case!
-------------------------------
4-22-99 Atlanta Constitution:
"Just a week before the massacre of Columbine High School the staff took part in a crisis-handling session prompted by last years string of school shootings around the country..... the staff members at the five-hour seminar discussed escape routes in a shooting attack, how to deal with wounded students and how to notify relatives in an emergency." ]
--------------------------
http://signofthetimes.yuku.com/topic/408/t/Bill-Zabel-s-Columbine.html
Bill Zabel, Columbine researcher
--On Monday, 4-12-99, the week before, the school had a mock shooting and a lock down.
--------------
Video: "An American Tragedy--The Columbine Massacre"
--One week before 4-20, Mesa Ridge High School, in neighboring El Paso County, had a drill which included police officers pointing guns at students in the school.
Labels: Columbine
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